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Um, so, hello. Today is February twenty-seventh. Uh, my name is Bailey Berry. I'm interviewing Caroline Caroline, yeah, Caroline Penning Pennington, uh, for the Pepperdine University Women's and Gender Studies collection. Um, so if you could start out by introducing yourself, so just repeat my name is and

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then your name, um, and then tell us when you graduated from Pepperdine and just a little bit about what you're doing now. Perfect. Uh, my name is Caroline Pennington. Um, I graduated Pepperdine undergrad in December of 2023. Currently enrolled in the Graduate School of Education Psychology

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for my clinical, uh, masters, but yeah. That's my life. Um, how, so I guess to start off, um, how did you hear about the Women's and gender studies program and what made you want to join the program? Yeah, so I I was just looking for a

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minor because I was on the track to graduate super early. I had a lot of electives from high school and so I was looking at a few different minors and like just paths that I could take. Um, I thought about an art history minor. I took

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one of those classes, didn't think it was a good fit for me, so then I was just looking through Pepperdine's catalog, seeing what they had to offer. And I saw way at the bottom the women and gender studies and I thought that that would be really

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interesting because it's always been something that I've been passionate about um and I really just wanted to learn more and see what the minor had um in store so I took the intro class and I fell in love with it. What did you love about it?

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Like what, what about that class was engaging for you? The intro class is amazing because it had a lot that I didn't know because it goes through the whole course of American history, um, but it highlights key factors and like key women that were very impactful

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during those movements that kind of went under the radar for me when I was in high school and so it was. Relearning American history but pinpointing certain facets and certain people that kind of got lost and I loved that and I loved looking at our history

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through a feminine lens because I feel like that isn't highlighted very often and so I took that class and I was like this is amazing like there's so much that I didn't know and that kind of sparked something in me and that made me want to

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continue my minor. Can you think of any other like classes or professors that really had an impact on you in the program? Yeah, I mean, every class that I took in the minor was incredible. There's not one that I took that I would not take again.

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Um, I really loved Women in Film with Doctor Carr. That was the best class that I've ever taken at Pepperdine, hands down, um, especially the best one in the minors. She. Really poured into her students. It was just 9 of us and we're all girls and

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so it just felt like such a little community that she built and it felt more like I was going to like a book club or something than I was taking a class and just learning about the feminine gaze and just like certain. Just how we view

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media and how women are portrayed in media was just so impactful because I've never been Someone who's looked at that in depth and so rewatching some movies that I've watched in my childhood or even just like recent films that have come out and relearning and re-looking

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at things that I never would have. Dissected before was just incredible. So Doctor Carr was just absolutely amazing. I also loved Women in Politics. That was an amazing class as well. Did you know all the other people in the program? Like how many other people were

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there in. Um, there were people that I had taken a few classes with that I was like, oh, I recognize you from this class. Are you in the minor? And they're like, yes, but I didn't really like know no one in my close immediate friend group

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or any of the people that I was close with on campus were part of the minor, so it was really fun because I was just like kind of on my own path and I would go and tell all my friends about it and they're like I

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didn't even know this existed and I was like, I know this is amazing. But I got to know people in the minor as I took classes, but I didn't know anyone beforehand, so the department didn't really have any like events or anything like that. They did.

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I just declared it a little bit later. I think if I would have done it earlier, I would have been able to get more involved, but I declared it, um, I think it was the first part of my junior year, maybe the second semester of my

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junior year, so it was a little bit later, but they did have events. I went to one of the mixers and. It was really fun, but I was just still like the same people that I saw through classes. I was like, hey, I know you. So

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you said earlier like a lot of your friends didn't even know that the program existed. What would you say was the perception of the program on campus and did that change at all like as you were in the program? I think a big thing was just

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no one really knew about it that I had talked to and it was so fun once I took the intro class and it was like a whole new like part of Pepperine opened up for me because I just didn't know that this existed until I did

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research on it. And so all of my friends, when I told them that I was declaring that minor, they're like, I didn't even know we had that. And so I feel like there wasn't much known about it on campus until I told people, but. I mean

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there's always like the stigma around it I think of it just being like what are you learning and why is this important and don't we already know this and I'm like no you should take one of the classes because you'll see but. Yeah, it was mainly

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just that it was kind of unknown. Yeah, I mean, what would you say for you was, was the value in taking those classes like when people sort of, if they ever did question you about why you were doing the program, like what would you tell them

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was, was the value in it? I mean, I just, I learned so much in those classes that I had never thought about and just. Learning like politics or the history of, I mean, American civilization just. I don't know everything that I had learned. It was through

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a different lens, and I think that that was just so important for me of just. I learned something. When I was a kid and when I was in middle school and high school and just relearning those through a different lens is just so impactful and so

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important and so I think I would just tell people. Take a class or just read a few articles that I read or watch a movie but watch it in a different way that you've watched it before, like look at the female protagonist in a different way.

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And that's all that I did during my minor and it was incredible because it's relearning something that you once knew in a different way is just so amazing. How do you feel like, I mean, how, I guess, do you feel like the program has impacted you

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either personally or professionally? Like, have you taken some of the things that you learned into your life after school? Absolutely. I mean, on the, like in a smaller way when I talked about like women in film with Doctor Carr, like I can never watch a movie

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the same way, which I think is amazing because she pointed out just like certain stylistic ways that a director will implement. Into the movie or the film and you catch that and you recognize that and you're like, oh, like I had never got that before and

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so now I can never watch a movie the same way, but. I also just. There's just so many ways in my life that I can tie back to what I learned in my life either intro to women's studies or women in film, women in politics. If

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I see like even if I look at a piece of media today or I read an article for The New York Times, I feel like I can pick up on something and so it's just any way that I am going about my daily life I kind

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of can tie it to that class. And it did impact me a little bit because I'm getting my master's in clinical psychology and I didn't really know for the longest time what I had wanted to do and then I took human or psychology of human sexuality

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with Doctor Rouse and I got that tied into my minor as well because it interplays a lot of just like. Um, there's a lot of women's studies that goes into that, and that helped me figure out what I wanted to do so then that got me

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on the family marriage therapy track because I was like I really love how gender interplays into like human connection and our relationships with one another and I think that that goes perfectly with that. That's really interesting. Um, so thinking about like who you were as a

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student going into the program, is there any advice that you would give to like I don't know future students or people who are considering going into the program or anyone who's just starting out. Absolutely I mean I would say get as involved into the program as

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you can because that was something since I declared it a little bit later um I felt like I wasn't as involved as I would like to be um so I think just like getting to know the professors which I got to do that a little bit

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and it was amazing because I think every profe like professor within the minor is just absolutely incredible. And so just like making those connections with their classmates and ask them why they're in the minor too because I got to do that a little bit, but I.

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I like I know why I'm doing it, but the stories of other people as to why they're taking the minor and like taking certain classes, I think are just. An incredible part of what makes the minor women and gender studies. It's just the people who are

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in the classes. So I think I would like to get more involved. And Yeah, just like the faculty to like get to know them and ask them why they're teaching this and why they're passionate about it as well. So interesting. Like in your conversations with other

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people who were in the program, do you feel like there were, there was a diversity of reasons why people were in the program? Like, can you talk about some of the other reasons that people gave? Yeah, I mean, a lot of people are kind of like

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me where they kind of stumbled into the minor where they just needed a little bit more credits or. They took one class and they got really interested, but I think I mean the general consensus is they just wanted to learn more and kind of learn what

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made the minor women and gender studies, but a lot of people have different backgrounds where they're coming from, and it was very intersectional, which I think was so beautiful because maybe people had completely different backgrounds than me and they came to Pepperdine for different reasons than

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I did. And we're all like in this class learning the same thing and. I just thought that was beautiful. Cool. Um, Uh, I'm your friend. Yeah, I guess those are all like the formal questions that we had, but is there anything else that you wanna say

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about the program, or, I don't know, like any other memories that come up that you'd want to share. I mean one thing that I think that's also amazing about the program is it is fairly new on our campus and so when I took the psychology of

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human sexuality that wasn't a part of the minor, but I just went in and I talked to the faculty advisor and I was like, hey, I think this is perfect for our minor. Can I make this be a part of it? And they're like, absolutely. So

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there's a lot of flexibility within the minor which I think is amazing. And so I think if you can build a case where it's like oh I've learned this in this class or this professor is teaching this in a certain way and I'd like to use

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this for my minor and they're like absolutely because one of the classes I took for the minor was an English class which also just was one of my English prerequisite requirements that I had to take, but it focused a lot of like female literature in the

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early 1800s and so. I got that used for one of my credits for the minor, so it wasn't one of those things where I had to take a lot of random classes just to get a certain credential for this minor. A few of them I was

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already taking because I had to take the English prerequisite. I had to take the psychology class for my major, so those two I was already taking, but I was like this would be awesome that I can just use this for my minor. And then I only

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had to take, I think 3 other classes, and those were something that I was passionate about. And it was just amazing that I could take like an upper level political science class that I would have never taken, and that was just. The minor was just an

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outlet that I got to like dabble in other um coursework that I would have never done so I loved that about it and I loved how flexible it was and I loved how all the professors were just very passionate about it. There wasn't one professor that

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I was like oh I'm just doing this just to like get my tenure or something like they were like I'm doing this because I'm very passionate about women and gender studies and I'm especially being fairly new on Pepperdine's campus. Everyone that was taking that class was

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very proud of the minor, and I loved that because I had never been a part of something like that before. Yeah. Did you notice any other changes in the program? Like you mentioned, it's, it's super flexible, so you're able to like add other classes. Were there

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any other ways that you felt like the major or the program, um, evolved or changed while you were in it? I mean. The amazing thing about women and gender studies is that it's constantly changing. I think with even just like current politics, current media that's coming

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out, there's always going to be something to talk about and so like women in film, Doctor Carr was saying like every time a new movie comes out she's like I could add this to my curriculum, so it's like every class can be different and I'm sure

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the women in politics class that I took a year and a half ago would be a little bit different based on. You know, just current politics and so. I didn't notice much of a change when I was in it just because I was only in it

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for about like 2 semesters, but I'm sure that it has changed even from when I had graduated, so that's amazing. Yeah, can you remember any of like the events that happened while you were in the program that like sort of impacted your classes or that were

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issues that you talked about? I mean, right when I started. I think was the overture of Roe v. Wade. So we talked a lot about that in the class and just kind of like current politics in America, especially in regards to like. Uh, just Female bodies

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and people who present As like female, like they're just everything about it and just the politics changing and so that was amazing just being in a class like that while. Current politics and policies are happening, um, so that was a big one, and I can't think

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of any other instances currently, but. I mean every day it was just there was something new happening and there was always something to talk about that was huge yeah and just to be in a class especially with like a woman in gender studies mainly being a

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large portion of that class it was very interesting. Well, cool, yeah, I mean, unless if you can think of any other like things that happened on campus while you were in the program that you'd wanna talk about or like any assignments or um projects that you

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worked on anything else that you'd wanna add? I mean. I think honestly the biggest thing was just Doctor Carr like she was just the best and her class was really impactful and I, it was just amazing and all the projects that we did because we made

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a short film and as a psychology major I would have never made a short film in my life, especially my career at Pepperdine. And so, being able to have that like creative freedom in a class was so beautiful because most of my classes were very like

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research based or like very. You know, just a high level psychology class, so I'm not doing anything that's like Artsy and so that was super fun of just being able to be creative and Doctor Karl was really like pushing us to be our most like creative

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self in that project and that was just the best thing ever and our last day of class was like our final period and we all showed our short film because that was our final and it was truly like the most empowering group of like people that

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I could show a short film to. And it just felt like I was showing like 8 of my best friends like oh this is something that I made and so it was just a really beautiful moment and we were all just like sitting there we took

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a picture together like it was truly like it felt like it like I said like a book club or something that was like I joined because I wanted to do this for fun. Less so of like I did this as a college course to get credits

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so that was just one of my favorite memories I've ever written. What was your short film about? Um, I honestly. It was going through like what we had changed or what our mindset has changed or how it has um since the course of the the semester

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and so mine was just about like the male gaze and then how my male gaze turned into a female gaze and so I just kind of went through some of the uh films that we had watched and how each one had impacted how I view movies

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now and so. A lot of people had like a similar story, but. That was, that was really fun, yeah. Well, great. I mean that's, that's all I got. Yeah, I think that's all I got too so interesting. It's cool that like you, what you do now

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is so directly impacted by you in the program. I know because I really didn't know what I was doing and then both um Doctor Rouse and Doctor Carr kind of helped me and they're like. Let's merge your two passions. Like let's merge women and gender studies

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and let's merge psychology, and that's kind of what I'm doing right now, which is awesome. That's so cool. Yeah. Are you doing your um Like, are you at the stage where you're actually doing work now? Like, not yet. I'm, I'm on the, um, I'm doing the

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online program right now, so it's 2 years of online classes and then my last year in practicum so that's when I'll be able to start actually like testing the waters and then going forward there's a few um certifications that I can do that would help me

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like learn more about like human interaction and how like gender and sexuality play into. Our day to day lives. Yeah, it's super cool.