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OK. Today is March 27, 2025. I am Katie Fry. I direct the Women's and Gender Studies Program, and we have been interviewing participants in Pepperdine's Women's and Gender Studies Program. And so today, if you could introduce yourself, tell us the year that you graduated, and then

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maybe we could start with a bit about what you're doing now. Sure. My name is Stevie Sebert DesJarlais, and I graduated from Pepperdine University, Seever College, in the spring of 2008, a very long time ago. And uh currently, I am employed by the University of Nebraska

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at Omaha in the Goodrich Scholarship Program, which is a learning community that serves students who might not otherwise go to college. It's need and merit-based. So, Um, we serve students who are oftentimes refugee, first-generation college students, and people coming from working-class backgrounds like myself. OK. Um,

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well, let's maybe start then with, let's, I wanna hear more about what you're doing now, but let's go back to your time in the program. And let's see, you graduated in 2008, so maybe talk to us about how you first heard about the program and why

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you decided to add it as a minor. Sure, so, uh When you all first contacted me, uh, it was an immediate yes. I wanted to agree to, uh, this interview because I had such An impactful experience with my women gender studies minor. Although I don't remember

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exactly who proposed it to me. Uh, at the time, I was an English major. I had taken several courses with Doctor Juliana Smith. I'm saying that her, I didn't call her by her first name, Doctor Smith. Yeah. And Julie, yes, yeah, Julie, and she, um, you

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know, I'm an Americanist and she does Brittlet, so there was, I wouldn't say that her classes were my favorite, but she lives the largest in my memory in terms of um professors who were supportive of a gender studies lens, who seemed to validate my interest in

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women writers, so I would say that it's possible, although. Not provable that she was the person who encouraged me in that direction. Uh, additional context would be that I was involved in Pepperdine's debate team and I had brought my experience as a high school debater to

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my college debate, and that gave me, uh, a solid feminist foundation in terms of theory to build from. And so when I was in the Great Books colloquium. Uh, during my first year, I had Doctor Paul Cantino. He also was very supportive of my focus on

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whatever woman character or woman writer that there was available, although I don't remember there being that many in the great books colloquium series altogether. Um, Yeah, it It was always something that interests me, and I think if, hopefully, my memory isn't too biased, but I remember

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some of my peers in my great books class, sort of wondering why I was so hung up on asking, well, is this author even writing to women? Readers, because the great books colloquially is Western philosophy and foundational thought and Um, I'm very thankful to have read

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those texts. I don't know if I would have picked them up on my own. But at the same time, not having a gender lens and applying it myself was, was work that fueled me, but then maybe alienated some of my peers. OK. Did you, I'm curious

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if you finished the Great Books program. I did. I, um, so I studied abroad in the fall of '05, so I couldn't continue with Doctor Cantino, which is what I would have liked. I ended up with, um, Doctor Marshall for the second two semesters, like the,

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the second year, um, and I can't say that I felt he was as receptive to the lenses that, that I was using, um. Not to say that I felt alienated from those classes, but I definitely think my experience with Doctor Cantino was Again, he's right up

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there with Doctor Smith in terms of feeling supported. I, I ultimately took, um, a Russian literature course with him and did an extensive research paper on the character of Maria in War and Peace, and he was super supportive of that. So, I was thankful. Um, and

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then I will say I declared my minor really late in my program of study, so I sort of had to. Take a lot of women's studies courses in the last year especially, but that was great, like total saturation in terms of just taking um. Women in

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politics, psychology of women. Um, I think maybe in my junior, I took human sexuality as a psychology course. And then I took several courses with Joy Carr. So her women in film class was pretty instrumental and great exposure to The Films that I still value today

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and then in the spring of '08, so my very last semester, um, the intro to women studies course wasn't available. I had missed it and I declared my minor so late that I did it as a directed. Study with Doctor Mary Mullins and working with her

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one with one was amazing um so she was extremely supportive and I think she was the one who told me about the master's program at San Diego State being the 1st, 1st women's studies department in the United States and that's where I ended up for my

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master's degree so she was instrumental in shaping me even though we sort of crossed paths very late into my Pepperdine experience. OK. I'm curious, do you remember, and you may not, but do you remember if Doctor Mullins was the director of the program at the time?

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I think so, yeah. OK. I think she was too. That's kind of where this project started when, um, my colleague, a couple of my colleagues and I realized we could not put together, um, that there was not a, a documented chronology of all the directors. Um,

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just because it had always been so word of mouth, but Lee Carroll, uh, has since passed away, and so we were just kind of losing people that could testify to the origins of the program. So that tracks with Mary. And just to kind of add to

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a couple things you said, um, yes, Julie Smith is amazing. She was involved. I think almost from the beginning of the, the program. Um, she retired a couple of years ago, but we're going to interview her soon, uh, for the, the, the project. And then, yeah,

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Doctor Cantino, he's, he's not taught in the program, but he's always been an advocate, and I think, you know, certainly his uh wife, Doctor Mullins, of course, being, uh, such an advocate and so directly involved in the program. So it's good to hear, you know, it's

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good to hear you validate a lot of these professors and their good work. Um, I would ask, do you remember at the time, or can you speak to how the program was perceived on campus? I think you kind of touched on this a little bit, maybe

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with, um, Some of your peers in great books, um, and then I'm wondering if that perception, if it changed at all while you were there. Oh, so, I mean, certainly, I didn't care about any perception. I would say maybe just a lack of awareness because had

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I known it was an option for me, I like to think that I would have involved myself in it sooner rather than as late as I did. Because I sort of found my stride. It, it, it really initiated my interest in, my formal interest in gender

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studies that, you know, took me to my master's degree and then continued with a gender studies certificate in my PhD. And now I teach intro to gender studies. So, It altered the trajectory of my life. Yeah. Um, so I, I can't say that I remember a

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a strong attitude towards it. I felt that maybe just my peers. We're directing. Maybe some confusion. Misunderstanding. I kind of got the sense that maybe they saw me as a broken record if I was asking the same questions over and over. Now, I, I didn't feel

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like hostility in the classroom, but I just felt a little bit alone in my interest and focus in a, a feminist lens. Um, but not in the women's studies classes. Those would, would have been just in sort of the Great books, colloquium, and then not even

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really in my English classes because most of the English professors were. Attentive to issues of gender. Um, so, not negative, hostile, just apathetic or And interested, yeah. Yeah, and it sounds like, like to your point, lack of awareness. It's, it's a small program. It's always been

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a small program. We actually have a big graduating class this year and we have, you know, I think, um, our number is, I wanna say it's still at 13. Students that are enrolled, um, but that's a big number, at least insofar as I've been tracking the

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numbers. So it's a small program, and I, I think we're hearing that a lot in the interviews that a lot of the alumni of the program just didn't know initially that the program existed or that the minor existed. Um, you've already spoken about Doctor Smith, Doctor

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Carr, um, Doctor Cantino, sort of adjacent to the program. I'm wondering if there are other classes or professors that were also particularly impactful. Um, so, I actually, prior to this, um, looked at my transcripts to remind myself what classes I actually took. And then I have

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all of my, um, well, most of my papers and the work that I did saved. So, it was like cross-checking who, who and what. Um, so, I did come up with some names cause I, I really Started to panic and thinking like, oh my goodness, all

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these people who I remember fondly, I can conjure up their faces in my memory, but what if I can't remember their names? So, um, It was actually an adjunct, I think. Professor Avina, who taught the human sexuality class, um, but that was pretty important. That was

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in fall of '06, so that was early. That was before I declared my minor. I just remember her. She had one of those offices that's sort of in the bowels of the building that people just sort of walk through, and her door, if she was on

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campus, was always open, and I just would come and sit in her office and talk to her. So I think in terms of the content of the class, it was eye opening for me. Um, and then just the frankness of the discussion and the handling of

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the topic of human sexuality at Pepperdine, uh, was also intriguing, and then her availability as a potential mentor, even though it was just for that one semester because I, I don't even know she was, she was pregnant when she taught the class. So I think she

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May have gone on maternity leave or maybe just had never returned to Pepperdine after that, but that was pretty instrumental. Um I know that Professor Buy was the instructor or the professor for my Psychology of Women course in spring of '08. That's B U I I

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think it was pronounced, yeah, Buy. Mhm. She was so energetic, and I ultimately, you know, I, I took multiple psychology courses, and I'm not a psychology major, so I think it spoke to just how well uh the quality of the teaching, at least, you know, with

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women's studies courses in that discipline. Um, I took a pretty interesting class that I valued with Professor Ortball's, um, Women in Politics or Political Science 509. And then this wasn't a women's studies class, but I took a lot away from, um, Doctor Parmali's English 440 class

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LA Litton Film. That's actually sort of, um, you know, I, I study film. Um, and write a lot about film with my research. And I was from Southern California, grew up just outside of LA and did a lot with pop culture and the music scene and,

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and all that which I carried over into research. So, he let me write about, um, you know, gender topics with the research that I took on, so I valued that. Yeah, and I, I love what you said as well earlier, um, about Doctor Mullins doing a

00:14:12.710 - 00:14:31.229

directed studies with you, which is, that sounds just like her. She is such an advocate for the English program, women's and gender studies. She's usually the first person to step up to help a student in that kind of situation. Um, so I'll, I'll have to tell

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her that you said that. I'm sure that'll mean a lot to her. I really think that that was. It was stressful thinking I've declared this minor, and then now I've got this scheduling conflict that I can't complete it. And she did volunteer and I really appreciated

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that, but it turned out to be an amazing experience to have just that concentrated one with one time. The professor of Doctor Mullin's caliber talking with me in, in sort of that intimate way about text that she would assign. So I, I don't think I would

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have gotten that out of even a really focused discussion class because I don't know. I think it ultimately was confidence building. Mhm. Yeah. I could see that. Do you have um other maybe memories or just moments that you would wanna talk about from your time in

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the program? Um, I, I really value some of the projects that I did. I, I, I think it sort of carried over my interest in gender studies until all of my classes, even when they weren't women in gender studies. I was when I was looking through

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my old assignments, I found a handout that I created for a French class, and it was on. Um, we had to present a research topic and introduce vocabulary about something that we wanted to teach the class about, and I chose feminism. So I had this, all

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these. Um, yeah, vocabulary words about feminism, and it'll never escape me that, you know, in a, in the, in the gendered language, it's the masculine, the feminism. Yes, you can't unsee it once you're, once the, the switch gets flipped, you're right, you can't unsee it, even

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in your French classes. No, no, um. Yeah, it, it does, it does feel like a very long time ago. So when I think about that. That opportunity, it, it just more feels like the foundation to everything that's come afterwards. I needed to find. That passion area,

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that interest area. Um, as a source of strength and Self value? Mhm. Yeah. Well, let's bring this back to what you're doing now. And so I'd love to hear you maybe expand on some of the things that you took away that continue to shape your life.

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And so, I think professionally, that seems like that's definitely been something that you brought, that you took with you. Um, so I don't know if you wanna return to that. I mean, you're, you're an academic, right? Doctor Mullins directing you to San Diego, but if you

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wanna speak to how that has kind of shaped your own trajectory. Sure. Well, After, um, after the suggestion, uh, by Doctor Mullins to check out San Diego State, um, I know I applied there and a couple of other programs, but that ultimately was the one that

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Seem to be the best fit. I visited that campus with um So my My parents, um, my parents are divorced. They've been divorced for a very long time. And so my dad was my only sort of parent living in California, and both of them were really

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supportive. So he went on a lot of visits with me to the local graduate programs that I was checking out. It's very like, even though I was an adult at the time, sort of still accompanying me out of interest, and, um, I remember. Going to a

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gender studies department at USC and I had made an appointment, um, I had made an appointment ahead of time, but the faculty member who was supposed to meet with me. I had an unforeseen circumstance, so that person was not in office, but I remember when my

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father, who's a construction worker or at least was a working construction worker at the time, is very tall, sort of could be interpreted as ominous looking man, walks into a gender studies department and. Unfortunately, he was received with a lot of. Hostility, which I explained why

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we were both there and we were both open and pleasant, but that was um eye-opening because at Pepperdine, even though my peers weren't necessarily interested in what I was interested in, I didn't feel that open hostility, um. Either from them or from my family or, you

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know, it it's just I had a, I say like a safe bubble to explore my interests and develop. Um, so when I was seeking out that next chapter of my life, um, going to San Diego State for the campus visit, again, my father accompanied me and

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I was greeted by, um, I think, you know, the graduate advisor there, Doctor Susan Cale, and she was very warm and she spoke of her positive relationship with her father and so accompanied us on this campus tour and, you know, invited us into the department in

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a way that it didn't. Feel so divisive. And that was a carryover. So, um, feminism, women's studies, gender studies, uh, as an inclusive space, safe, um, but also welcoming for folks that, that may not. be typical or stereotypical of what would be expected. Yeah. Um, so

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that was important. I think that's a carryover. And then, of course, my last semester at Pepperdine was so saturated in women's studies classes that when I went into the master's program, it felt like coming home. Um, I, to this day, that two-year master's program at San

00:21:11.949 - 00:21:32.959

Diego State has been some of the I don't know how to put it into words, but it just felt like I was surrounded by people who are doing such interesting things, who had a view of what the world could be, um, And that just felt great.

00:21:33.709 - 00:21:52.040

And OK. So, after that, I went to Alaska for a few years. I worked in public relations and event coordination. So, it took me a while to get back to academia. Um, but I found myself at University of Nebraska Lincoln in the English department, and there,

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um, they have a gender studies graduate certificate, which I immediately expressed interest in, um, because all the classes that I was already taking, planning on taking all pretty much have a gender studies, uh, component. And my research, um, I started out primarily looking at women in

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film. Um, that has since evolved to looking at men and masculinity in film, uh, as a result of my engagement with the Popular Culture Association, which is a national organization, um, and routinely going to their conferences and presenting papers in the men's and men's studies area.

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And I found a nice community of scholars there that are interested in turning the lens around. So, I still find studying women and femininity to be wonderful. Um, but I also now I'm in a place where I think that some scrutiny, uh, towards the other side

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of the spectrum, if you will, is also important. And uh in terms of my teaching, so I mentioned earlier that I'm in a learning community. So as a faculty member in the learning community, I primarily do teach for our scholars, um, and I bring gender studies

00:23:18.900 - 00:23:43.890

to those classes, but their core. Gen eds, and they oftentimes are composition or broad humanities courses to acculturate first-year students to the college experience. Um, so it's a little bit broader of an audience. Which is why I really value the opportunity to teach intro to Women

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and Gender studies for the Women and Gender Studies Program at the University of Nebraska, Omaha. It's night and day sometimes between a class of first year college students who are just kind of There to learn how to discuss and a classroom of students who have self

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selected to take a gender studies class. I mean they're fired up, they're tracking current events, they've got a lot of skin in the game in terms of issues that we're studying and there's just. That sort of baked in interest and investment, even with the sort of.

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Varying levels of experience because sometimes the student will enroll in an intro class and have read a lot, seen a lot, and already know a lot. And then there's a student who saw it. It's like, that sounds interesting and has very little exposure and somehow they

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all come together in this space and they're learning from each other and we do a lot of community building to acknowledge that varying skill level and awareness in the room, um. But it just comes together in such an awesome way, time and time again, even though

00:25:05.050 - 00:25:18.209

every semester is different, it just always sort of arrives at this point where I see the students talking to each other in a big metro campus. A lot of times at the start of the semester, everyone's a stranger in the room, and by the end, they're

00:25:18.209 - 00:25:44.109

going out together. They're Connecting, making friendships, um. Building solidarity. Yeah, I love that. Uh, and I love the image of This like big dad going with you to check out gender studies programs, that's a great memory. Thank you for sharing that. Well, it sounds like he's

00:25:44.109 - 00:26:02.089

a great dad. Yeah, um. I, so I'm curious just to do a quick detour, but you mentioned you're an Americanist, and I'm assuming that that meant literature. But maybe not, cause you also, it sounds like you teach film as well. Well, I do a lot with

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film in my research, um, but yeah, I do bring it into the humanities courses and um the intro to women gender studies course when we get to media and the arts section. Mhm. Well, I'm, I'm just curious. I'm an Americanist as well, so I'm wondering, are

00:26:19.170 - 00:26:35.030

you contemporary? Are you early? Do you, what some, what are some of your specializations? I was saying, To the librarians before we got on the Zoom. My background is Eudora Welty's office, which I keep forgetting to change, but I did it for a class a few

00:26:35.030 - 00:26:58.109

weeks ago, so. Yeah, I always like meeting another Americanist. Sure. Um, it's been a while since I worked with literature, um, but contemporary, and, um, let's see. I'm going back to my dissertation which was Mm, 6 years ago. Uh, yeah, working, kind of starting with the

00:26:58.109 - 00:27:22.800

beats and looking at rebellion and then doing some Uh, I'll, I'll use the word weird, some weird things in terms of, uh, maybe pop lit. So, um, I looked at This is embarrassing. Clarice Starling is a character who intrigues me. Mhm. And um that's across like

00:27:22.800 - 00:27:52.239

the book to the film adaptation, um, also Gone Girl. OK, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But I have moved away from it and I'm, I'm wondering about that, if I should return to it because Well, Maybe more. Traditional disciplinary work will be necessary in the coming years. Yeah,

00:27:52.369 - 00:28:12.709

I'm just, just curious when you mentioned that. Um, right, and who knows, you are, it's good to have diverse disciplinary training because, as you know, sort of the, the landscape of our Our jobs do, it does shift. So it's helpful to be fluent in more than

00:28:12.709 - 00:28:35.939

one. Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking that media literacy is a through line. I mean, as somebody who During my graduate teaching assistantship really cut my teeth on composition and still teaching composition because that, that is how English departments get their funding, or at least the ones in

00:28:35.939 - 00:29:03.560

the state of Nebraska, um, media literacy is sort of a, it seems like a tool kit. That I'm very happy to teach and still seems relevant in the current landscape and also lends towards gender studies frame in addition to. Right, right. Um, OK, let me, I'll

00:29:03.560 - 00:29:22.800

just throw one more question out, um, which is, you know, I, I mentioned our program now, and I said, you know, if you, if you could sit down with some current students in the program. What would you share with them? Any advice, any perspectives, things maybe

00:29:22.800 - 00:29:44.670

that you wish you'd known, uh, you know, as a student in the program, you can take this any number of directions. Yeah, OK. Um, Well, I would congratulate them on making one of the best decisions that I also made. Um, but I would also share with

00:29:44.670 - 00:30:07.689

them. How versatile the skill set I learned turned out to be. I mean, I mentioned briefly that when I took my pause from academic work, I still found myself in a, on a university campus um for my PR position. But having studied gender, I think gave

00:30:07.689 - 00:30:32.910

me Gave me an operational framework for navigating the world in any sort of professional setting and uh really a way of understanding power and understanding my relationship to power and how other people use power in um both good and bad ways. And so, the investment that

00:30:32.910 - 00:30:51.069

they're making with their time and their education is ultimately valuable even if um even if some other people don't think it is, because that has been a common response, or at least it was back in the day when I was much younger. What are you gonna

00:30:51.069 - 00:31:11.550

do with that? And the answer is anything I want. Yeah. That's a great answer. Well, thank you so much for your time. I appreciate you. Especially, what's the time difference? Are you 2 hours? Yeah, it's 2 hours, so it's only 4, 4:30. OK. Well, I appreciate

00:31:11.550 - 00:31:31.050

you taking time out of your schedule, and it's very nice to meet you. I, I left in 2006 and didn't know that I would come back. Also because of Doctor Mullins because she just kept reaching out and anyway, she's a dear colleague, but so our paths

00:31:31.050 - 00:31:52.170

would not have intersected because then I returned um after you graduated. So, I love meeting our alums who were there, you know, while, when I wasn't. So, thank you. Thank you for this opportunity. I'm Just so happy that the program exists. It, it persists and that

00:31:52.170 - 00:32:07.135

some of the folks that were instrumental in my life are still there. That's awesome. And if, if y'all ever have a party, I, I mean it. I would love that. When I was at, I'll keep you posted. When I was at San Diego State, I was

00:32:07.135 - 00:32:24.319

the graduate assistant for the chair at the time who was coordinating the 40th anniversary of their program. And so I did some work in the archives, which was really fun. So. Yeah, I'll keep you posted or and feel free to reach out because the plan is

00:32:24.900 - 00:32:42.430

we're coming up on our 25th anniversary as a program and so we would like to do something that probably wouldn't happen before next spring. But yeah, feel free, feel free to reach out and give me a nudge and ask for any updates on that. OK. Thank

00:32:42.430 - 00:33:01.479

you so much. And please send my best to, um, to everybody. I will. Like I said, well, I think we'll see Julie next week and then, um, we'll, you know, Mary, I think will be interviewed for this, so I will definitely pass along, um. Your good

00:33:01.479 - 00:33:22.520

wishes and hellos. I don't think Doctor Smith ever saw a comma that I used in the proper position. That's one thing that I do miss about her is she had high, high expectations. Of her students, and she did not back down. I hear that over and

00:33:22.520 - 00:33:39.000

over again. Yeah. I think one of the times when I realized that she actually, this sounds terrible, the way I'm saying it, like, like, she actually liked me. That she, she sort of said something like, well, why wouldn't you go to graduate school? I was like,

00:33:39.079 - 00:33:57.550

OK. I've got when you put it that way, yeah, you're right. Oh, yes, yeah, yeah. She's definitely, she's missed as a colleague. Yeah. Um, OK, Bailey, I will pass the mic back to you.