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So, just for the record, um, we're here with, uh, Chuck Waters and, um, and Charlotte Waters and, uh, it is March 13th, uh, 2014 and, uh, other folks in the room, Melissa Nikon, uh, Laurie Patrick, uh, I'm Kevin Miller and Katie Richardson is here too and

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we're at Pepperdine University and we're going to have a conversation with, with Chuck. Um, it's an oral history. So we'd like to talk a little bit about your, your early life, but I think most of our discussion will be about your career. Um, and, um, if

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you want to take a break at any point, let us know we can stop the camera. Um, otherwise I think, you know, we'll probably talk right up until lunch. Um, if it's getting a little long, just, you know, give us a subtle signal. Well, I got,

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I've got 49 years. So, uh, right. We'll see what we, how far can we go through. Right. So, um, yeah, let's just spend a little bit of time talking about, uh, the, your early years, uh, where you were born and raised a little bit about your

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family. Well, I was born in Libertyville, Illinois, a little town 40 miles north of Chicago. And, uh, both went in the Marine Corps after high school, I was always a real active guy and high school guys thought I was crazy because I wanted to hop trains

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and climb buildings and, and, uh, transfer from one car to another and I did skid cars around every chance I got. And, uh, then after the Marine Corps, I got into plumbing. So, plumbing back there in Illinois is, is pretty chilly in the winter time. So

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I said, I'm gonna go to California, I'm gonna check it out. Well, I found out I could get a job here very easily and I did, I got a job the first day I was here. And, uh, but then I went, stayed here for about six

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months, checked it out while I was here. I wrote an article on TV guide about stunt men. I said, you know what, I'm gonna check into that. So I called a couple of people and first I called S A and then they, they, uh, gave me

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the number of a, uh, where a bunch of stunt guys were at an answering service. So I called them and they said, I said, I was looking to talk to just a stunt person. I said, because I might want to get into that area. They said,

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well, you know, we don't just hire people off the street. Uh, I said, hey, I'm a plumber. I make good money. I said, I'm not just, you know, bumming around. They said, ok, then there's a guy named Paul Ser, he has a gym this, he, he's

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been a stunt guy for like 30 years when I met him. And, uh, he said, go on out and see him, he'll give you all the lowdown. So I did, I went out and talked to him. I said, Paul, I said, interested in being a stunt

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guy. I hear you train him here and you work with him. And he said, yeah, he said, I said, what, what's the deal? He said, well, you joined my gym and he said, you work with the stunt guys and I'll let you know along the way

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how you're doing. I said, OK, I'm going back to Illinois selling my house, move out here with four kids and I said, but I'm gonna make it. So anyway, I came out here was worked as a plumber for, um, for actually, it was three more years.

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But while I was getting into the, into the stunt work, anyway, went back out said Paul, I'm here. Um, I'm ready to start training. Nine months later. I got a stunt job because he said he knew I was a, a, uh scuba diver. He said, Chuck,

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he said, um, come on out here and, uh, bring a letter that says you're a special specialist in the water. And he said, I got tied up today in this show. I'm gonna be going a couple of days, but you're gonna take my place on a

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show. Said, wow, that I go to sa I take the letter and, uh, get in the se the next day I was working on a show and it was a di a scuba diving thing. And, uh I thought, shoot, this is great. You know, I, I,

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uh I got in that fast but stunt work, you can be working today and then you might, when you're starting out, you might not work for a couple of months. But I was lucky I got in with Paul. He had a lot of shows going and

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I, I worked with him quite a bit and uh he'd refer me to other people. Um I worked on batman and uh voyage to the bottom of the sea and all with a bunch of shows TV, shows. And then, uh anyway, we're in the, we're clear

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of the stunts before we leave your early years behind. Um What led you to join the Marine Corps? I was just curious, I saw a movie called Sands of You O Jima and it was John Wayne sergeant striker. And I thought, wow, you know, and there

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again, to me it's action, you know, I always liked action. I was gonna be a cop and I, and I sat one day and my car and I, and I had an application to join the police force. And I said, God, if I, if I sign

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this thing and I'll be here for 20 years. Well, I didn't want to stay in Illinois. So, anyway, that's why I joined the Marine Corps. It was, uh, oh, it, it was just kind of my kind of a service. I had three years of military before

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I went in the Marine Corps. The ROTC, um, turned out I was a company commander, a captain. So I had the basic thing to go in. I mean, I was squad leader all through boot camp. My first, my first, uh, orders were a drill instructor, you

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know. So, I mean, I was, I was meant to do that and, and it's followed up pretty much. Um, and you going back again, I always for, I did it, like for me, I wanted to prove I could do certain things and because, uh, well, I

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came up in not a real happy kind of time when I was a kid. Um, my people got divorced other than my, my, in my families and my cousins and that, and they were always bragging about their kids, you know, and I thought, you know what,

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someday I'm gonna sh they were my incentive. I said someday I'm gonna show my people that I can do as good as they did. And that was my drive. But, uh, anyway, uh, I always like to challenge the Marine Corps was a challenge here. I am.

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Stunts. That's a challenge. Uh, this was the early 19 fifties. 53. Uh, yeah, 53. I went to Mar, actually August, uh, of 52. I went right out of high school. I hitchhiked to California. I hitchhiked to New Jersey when you could hitchhike because to me I

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just want to see the country, you know, that was right after high school. I wasn't even 18. I was hitchhiking to California Adventure. Yeah. Yeah. But that was, you know, that's what led me kind of, I guess to getting into the stunt stunt area. When I

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saw that article, I said trains. Yeah, I did a lot of, a lot of things and then my buddies would go, we're not climbing that building. I said, come on you chicken. Yes. Oh, what? Yeah, it sounds like there were some pretty early indications of what

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you'd be doing for your career. Well, I think I have something I wrote down here too about, uh, when I was like, five years old. I remember I was up on the roof of the house and my mom's calling, where are you? You little brat? So,

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I jumped over this tree and I'd come down the tree, you know, from the roof to the tree. And, uh, but, yeah, I, I remember even at three people wonder how I can think back. But I do, I, I don't know why I, but I can,

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I go back to three years old. I can remember swinging on a rope across this ravine, you know, and, and people coming out, get off of that and get hurt. Um, but, uh, so I had, you know, kind of a adventurous time getting up into, you

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know, from the Marine Corps and all that. And then when I get out, like I, uh, I got into the plumbing, I spent, well, I was gonna tell you, I was never satisfied to just be, you know, just run of the mill I want. And only

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for me, I went out to prove to anybody else just for me. And, uh, when I was, uh, in, first of all, I chose the Marine Corps, I was a squad leader and I, and, but when I got out, then I got into plumbing and I

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spent a five year apprenticeship plumbing and I represented my class in a state plumbing contest. Um It was between myself and another guy. The other guy could have done it too, but he just didn't want to. And then, so I came in third in the state

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Illinois. Now we're up against 500 apprentices a year from Chicago alone. And, uh, but anyway, uh then from that, um going from the plumbing thing and then, like I said into the Marine Corps, so I always wanted to do to do something just maybe better. And

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then when I was, when I got out of the apprenticeship, I was a foreman right away because I had, you know, the high marks with the, with the apprenticeship thing. And, hm, so just the challenges, brothers or sisters. I had a brother and I have a

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sister. My brother passed away, but my sister is in Indiana. Great. Well, when you, um, what, what, what made you decide to move to California, to hitchhike out there just because it was there. And I heard about California. I said, well, and a buddy of mine

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and I get checked together on that, but he quit on me. Now, is this when you came out to work? Was this earlier? No, this was right out of high school. Right, right out of high school. So I don't think it was, let's see, it was

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probably about a week after we had planned this. We said, let's Bruce and his name is Bruce. I said, let's hitchhike to California. I said I got relatives in San Jose, we'll go out and see them. And so we took off hitchhiking, took us like four

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days to get out of here and then we came down to L A and we got picked up at the, in the, in the downtown L A by, by two women detectives, they were checking and see how old we were because we, we were 17. I

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thought you're true. Yeah, they said you guys shouldn't be out here. I said, well, we hitchhiked here, you know. So you, so we get off the street. But you had a letter though. Well, we had a letter, we went to the police department and it was

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signed by my parents and, but we wanted them to have a record because we knew they'd be getting calls. So sure enough, we weren't even out of Oregon and a cop stops us and say, hey, you guys can't hitchhike. And where are you going? What are

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you doing? And, and uh so I, we're going down to L A. Oh, ok. Where are you from? Illinois? And we showed him the letter and we said, look, we've got permission. They said, well, yeah, but you can't hitchhike here in town. Will you get over

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the top of that hill? Then you can hitchhike again. But anyway, so then uh we were here a few days and then we're gonna head back and we get out to Barstow and I see these trains there again. There's a train just pulling out of the

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station. I said, Bruce, let's go catch that train. So, and we got a little duffel bag thing, you know, we're carrying them down the side of that. That's that highway. It goes from Barstow clear to in India or no uh out there by the river have

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a suit. Anyway. Uh So he's away, we go down the side of this hill but now I get a la, I jump on the ladder, he jumps in the open door and he's h he's flopping along like this and out, he goes out, shoot. Now I

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gotta get off this thing because who knows where we would end it up. Right. So, anyway, he, we go up the top of the hill and it's like 100 and six degrees and, and, uh, so we hitchhike the needles and we didn't have hardly any money.

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So I said, you know what, let's go to the police station, let's go see if we can stay there tonight. They did, they let us, they said, look, we got a storage room, we got some cots out there. You gotta go sleep in the storage room.

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I didn't care. So we did the next morning, Bruce says I'm tired of this hitchhiking. My ankle hurts and he said, I'm taking the bus the rest of the way. I said, you know what I said, I was hitchhiking out and I'm gonna hitchhike back and

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I'll see you in Waukegan. So he got home the same. It, it was on a Friday. He got home that morning and I got home that night and I hitchhiked. Yeah, because, you know, with Greyhound buses, they stop at every little bird along the way. So,

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but anyway, that was, that was that trip. And then I, then I got back. I worked for about a couple of months. I said, you know what, all my buddies were joining the Air Force. They were gone. Bruce was gone and So I said, I'm gonna

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hitchhike to New Jersey and see my relatives there. So I did, I just took off and, uh, got back from there and I said, Marine Corps time for me to go. Did you travel anywhere with the Marine Corps? Yes, I did. I, uh, I, well, after,

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uh, from the high school I needed 50 rifle instructors and weapons instructors to teach midshipman at Annapolis. So I got picked to go there along with the other guys and, uh, when that was over, they shipped us to camp of June. And then they'd say you're

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going to infantry or what do you do? You work on radios? You're in communications. I told my work on heavy equipment, I engineers. So I was in engineers and, uh, so got over to, to Korea and, and, uh, that's where I spent some time there. But

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anyway, from, I went from LA June to Pendleton to Korea and then got discharged back at Great Lakes Illinois. It was after the armistice. Yeah. Mhm. Yeah. So, how long were you in the Marines? I had two years active because I joined a reserve out. But

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that's another thing. Join a reserve. They just formed it in my town and I was the first one to leave. I volunteered. I said, well, I'm gonna activate, I don't wanna do this once a week thing or so I activated it. And then at the June,

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I, well, I didn't tell you. That's how I got to Korea. I requested active uh to go on and draft to Korea. And my buddy from Chicago. I went over and told him and I, I said, hey, s sm, I'm going to Korea. I, I volunteered

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to go and he says I didn't volunteer, but I'm going with you. So anyway, that was funny too. He was so shaky all the time. He was, he was, they call wine companies where you're right up, there's 1000 yards of like, nobody, nobody goes there, the

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Korean, the North Koreans. But he was right on the line. I'd go up there and he'd be all, like, always shaky and nervous. I said, forget it. I said they're not coming over that line, but I, I was, and I'm not bragging but things to me,

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I just kind of played it kind of cool. You know, I, I, things didn't bother me when she first came down to California. I took her out my car and I'm showing her how to do these slides. Doing a 18. In fact, where we went one

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time, here's this driver's head car going along with all these kids. And so I do a 1 81 80 reverse 180. My favorite. They go, like, holy crap. Is that how you drive the instructors? Like, don't do that. That's what you don't do. Right. Yeah. So

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I guess I, I gather after the marines you got married and had a family. I did. Um, but then, then you decided, uh, to check out California again. I did. Yeah. And so, um, how did, arriving in Los Angeles did? What were your expectations? And how

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did reality meet those expectations? Well, they met all my expectations. Uh, first of all the, when I was here, like, when I first got here I was plumbing and, uh, I had, I was going out working out two days a week at Paul Stater's gym that

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I mentioned and it was a boxing gym, but the stunt guys would come in and we'd work out fights and everything. But anyway, um, so the plumbing worked out well for me, I could have been a form and the guy told me when I was ready

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to leave, he said, look, I wanna make you a form and I said, look, I, I don't wanna, you know, hold you up in that area, you get somebody else. I wanna be a stunt guy. So, um, so the, the stunt work worked out, uh, everything

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that I wanted. It, it worked and it was, and it was warm. I like the, that's why I went in the Marine Corps. They always go to where it's warm. But, uh, yeah, all my expectations of California were fied. So, how much time was there between

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your first visit when you heard about Paul's gym? And then when you actually moved out here, I left here in June about six months. Ok. So you went back to Illinois, settled things and then I came like the day after Christmas, I had a truck and

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all the furniture loaded and I hauled my furniture, my wife at that time and the kids went to her mom's waiting for me to get moved out here. And I bought a house in San Gabriel and got it all squared away and then they moved out.

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So it was only like six months. But what the best part about it was too. Um, when I get out here and I started going to the gym, I mean, it was, it was, it was a surprise to me that Paul says, Chuck, you go, you're

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gonna fill in for me tomorrow on the, on this Ho West show as a scuba diver. And I, oh, wow, that's great. I was only here nine months and there was a few guys that were jealous that I did it that quick, you know. But then

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again, I was still plumbing and, uh, because, you know, you, you don't, you don't work every day when you f you don't even work every day when you're well established. But getting into that, that part of it after about three years, um, I was on a

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show and I told this guy, I said, George, I said, golly, it feels like I'm working all the time now. He says, well, you've arrived and I thought I never forget that. As you see, I'm telling it today because it was really something to hear that

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from him. He, he was a well established stunt guy and I thought, boy, that's pretty neat. And then I, I just did stunts for like, 10 years of just, um, just, I was the stunt guy. No, I didn't coordinate. I didn't do anything but I was

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so busy that I never really had time to venture off into, uh, getting my own stunt coordinating job. But, uh, by kind of by accident, uh, this other stunt coordinator who I worked with a lot, he, uh, he got busy on the show like Paul did.

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And he said, Chuck, you're gonna go out on the scout tomorrow with the director and he said, just pick out everything like you're gonna do it. And he said, uh, go from there. So I get out the next day to go scouting and I still thought

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Paul was gonna do it the coordinator. And so the director says, wow, it'd be good to see you. We're gonna start here in a couple of days. And I said, well, Paul will be coordinating. He says, no, Paul is not coordinating. I like everything you set

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up. You're gonna coordinate it. That was my first coordinating job. And I felt funny because I had to call Paul, say, Paul, the director wants me to coordinate. He says, well, go ahead, you're gonna call all my, all the guys, you'll have our team there, which

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I did, you know. So that was kind of neat. You remember what film that was? It was called 3000 Mile Chase. It was with Glenn Ford, a TV movie. Pardon TV, TV, movie. So after about three years, you could quit your day job. I did, I

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quit my day job. I went to the boss and said, look, I, because when I first got into it, I said, look, I don't want to hold you up on jobs. I said, I know you got to count on people to be a certain place, certain

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time. Um I'll, uh, I just, well quit and he said, no, no, I don't want you to quit. He said I can send you off on your own. I don't have to worry about you. And he said, just stay here as long as you can. So

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about three years. That was it. And then, uh, I just mainly stunts. But anyway, so, uh entering the, the world of, of film and television production, you know, getting behind the scenes and being a part of these productions, did it, um, did it, was there anything

00:21:56.739 - 00:22:12.099

that surprised you or was it kind of like you expected or it was, it was kind of like I expected. Yeah, because I knew a lot about it before I ever got, you know, got into it, uh, by working out at the gym, work with the

00:22:12.109 - 00:22:26.489

other stunt. Guys and, uh, you know, they fill you and we had one guy and particularly that, uh, he'd go to work that day and then he'd come to the gym and work out and he wanted to brag about what he did, you know. So we

00:22:26.500 - 00:22:48.479

kinda, kinda had an insight into the thing, but, well, maybe it's a good time to break out some photographs. Um So as I think Melissa mentioned to you, we pulled a few of your photos just uh that we were particularly interested in. Um Let's see. So

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this is Batman, uh the TV show from 1966. Um I think that's you getting flogged by Mr West? That's, yeah, that's, or is that actually a stunt guy? That's a stunt double for batman? Yeah, from Batman. That was Hubie Kern, his name. Yeah. Uh The actors

00:23:12.900 - 00:23:25.810

didn't do that. They didn't have to because usually when you put an actor in, you want to see the close, that's him. You can't tell the guy's got a mask on. So you might as well use the double, you know, and save him getting hit. There's

00:23:25.819 - 00:23:41.670

been broken noses where the guy leans in too far and the other guy doesn't know enough to pull his punch. And so, uh, but how I got on Batman was through, I was recommended by Paul. Uh, and, uh, he said I got this guy, you could

00:23:41.680 - 00:23:55.849

throw him all over the place. He's, he's, he's on the ball. He can, he keeps track of the, of the routine, you know, because we did routines and stuff in the gym. We'd set up 23 guys doing a fight and like, you'd be the camera and

00:23:55.859 - 00:24:11.760

then you'd critique or we'd have two cameras where you got to satisfy both cameras, you know, and, uh, uh, and not do and make it have a mess, you know. So there's a technique to that. But anyway, Batman was, uh, I got through Paul and I

00:24:11.770 - 00:24:39.219

worked on it quite a few, quite a lot. Um, but anyway, that one, yeah. Um, just so we know which, which ones you're talking about. It's ok. As long as it, it's pretty clear we can figure it out. This is, oh, this is training. Um So,

00:24:39.239 - 00:24:58.260

um, yeah, we, we are interested in generally, um, what kind of training is required by stunt men. Um, both, you know, throughout your career and then for specific projects and, and then how much of, of these kinds of, um, methods did you innovate yourself or develop

00:24:58.270 - 00:25:17.890

with your, your friends who were stunt people? Well, um, well, let's go back to the gym there. We were working on fights, fight routines. Uh You'd, you'd set up the fight, uh, maybe 234 guys, like I said, and then we have one guy would be the

00:25:17.900 - 00:25:32.579

camera and then we'd switch around or we did fencing. We did a lot of, there was some pirate pictures at the time I worked on a few of them. Uh, we'd go out horseback and we'd do falls. We, you know, uh, knock each other off a

00:25:32.589 - 00:25:48.250

horse, bull dog. Um, everything that you were gonna see in a movie is what we practiced on the horses. And, uh, we did high falls. We'd go out and set up a pad of a little five by eight pad. Now they got airbags 20 ft wide

00:25:48.260 - 00:26:05.790

and a story high. And, uh, but we'd go up about 30 ft and hit a five by eight pad and then do back falls. Um, what else do we call it repelling? We, because we, we had, our gym was at Second Street in Santa Monica. And

00:26:05.800 - 00:26:28.349

so after, after the, uh, morning of working out there, we'd go out, go rappelling right off the cliffs down here by the coast highway and then we'd find like a dam somewhere working out there. Um, rent cars. Oh, yeah, we go out and rent a car

00:26:28.790 - 00:26:49.040

and, uh, go out and, you know, a back lot somewhere or AAA side road or factory area where it's nobody around, do a few slides in there. One a and then move from there real quick because the cops are gonna be coming. So we go to

00:26:49.050 - 00:27:05.560

another place and start skidding around and we go back and the tires would all be rounded off and you could see how they melted because of the heat, you know. But anyway, yeah, we did some of that stuff too. But the, but, yeah, the rock climbing

00:27:05.569 - 00:27:26.910

though too. Uh, we didn't just do it out here at the, at the highway. We went out, this is at Ida Wild out by, um, Palm Springs. And this, then this, this other one here is, um, at point Dune where we rep practice there. So these

00:27:26.920 - 00:27:45.989

are pointing or Zuma. That was Zuma. Now, here's one of the first, this one is, one is down there at the Coast Highway. That's when we first started rebelling. But so we worked out at every, every kind of angle that we figured we were gonna get

00:27:46.000 - 00:28:06.489

called on to do a stunt guys. Is that towards Santa Monica? This location or uh let's see. That was, yeah, Pacific Palisade. That's where that was. Yeah, but this is just facts and high falls at, at down at the gym. This is walking a tight rope

00:28:06.500 - 00:28:34.469

down at the gym. This is more repelling down at the Coast Highway. Another one, all these were the highway there. Yeah. But do you remember um, a stunt that required some really special specialized training? Um mhm I, I, well, the, the fights fights would be a

00:28:34.479 - 00:28:53.400

specialized, I mean, you don't, in fact, I got a good example of it. I was working on a show in Nashville River, Phoenix, Derm Aone and all Sandra Bullock in her first. The thing called up Yeah. And uh, so I have now they're gonna do a

00:28:53.410 - 00:29:08.390

fight outside the bar. So I send for two guys from California. They come down there and I, I said, let's go work out a little routine behind the shack, the garage here and we get over there and they're throwing punches. Like I went there. Where did

00:29:08.400 - 00:29:20.250

you guys learn how to fight? I said this looks, I said, here's how I like to do it. I don't know how you learned, but this is how I like to do it. And I started throwing up. But these guys no training, I guess to, to

00:29:20.260 - 00:29:35.280

throw, to throw a punch. I worked at another show where the guy, they wrote a bunch of cowboys see another whole area. But anyway, cowboys weren't known to throw real good punches. So this guy though, a bull rider come out of the rodeo ranks and he

00:29:35.290 - 00:29:47.959

says, Chuck, he says, I don't know how to throw a punch. I said, you know what? There's 60 guys in here. I said, I'll throw the punches, you take them, I'll knock you down the deck and you get up and I'll hit you again. You know,

00:29:47.969 - 00:30:04.849

you won't even have to throw a punch. It was on 1941. A Spielberg figure. Yeah, but anyway, he, I mean, some, but so yeah, you do, you better train in all the areas. I mean, you don't just go out and get in a car either because

00:30:04.859 - 00:30:22.109

I got real good buddies of mine. They can't drive around the corner, let alone come around, throw a 180 or reverse 180 or, you know, they, you're certain people are cut out for certain things and it used to be in the early days of the stunts.

00:30:22.119 - 00:30:40.349

They were specialized. If you were a car guy, they'd never think of you doing a, a fight or, you know, uh, doing underwater stunt. There were certain guys, Paul Stater was a water guy. He was known scuba, anything in the water, high dives. Uh, then they

00:30:40.359 - 00:30:59.689

got like no carry locked and, and, uh, he was a car guy. He, he probably never threw a punch in his life. I came into a different era. I came to where you better know everything, better be trained and everything. And luckily once you did a

00:30:59.699 - 00:31:18.180

few shows, then people got to know what you could do. Well, I'm in that area, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go to like when I started working one of 13 Clint Eastwood pictures. Uh High Plains Drifter was my first one with buddy Van Horn. A guy I

00:31:18.189 - 00:31:35.640

mentioned before I did a high fall out of Bell Tower. It's, it's in here. So I think anyway, they were, they were, but it's just while I'm thinking of these, you know, you pull them out of there. But, uh, so I don't even know how I

00:31:35.650 - 00:31:53.040

got hired by buddy. I don't know who turned my name in, but they say we'll get Chuck and it's a fall out of this Bell Tower, get shot out of there. So, um, I go there and, and when he laid it out, I, I made more

00:31:53.050 - 00:32:03.439

out of the stunt than what he wanted me to do. You know, he, and he thought, oh, wow. He said, don't you want to, you know, make the roof a little bit more of an angle. I said, no, shoot, I don't, you don't wanna make any

00:32:03.449 - 00:32:24.260

waves when you're starting out. So no matter what it's gonna work. Right. Well, anyway, the guys, the guys come in and they, they're shooting me out of the Bell tower. Yeah, this is it. That's the one. Ok. So anyway, get shot out of the bell tower

00:32:25.209 - 00:32:39.930

and you're gonna see a couple of boards here on this roof. This is for the second take because the actors didn't get far enough into the shot. I ran my knee right through this roof and buddy says you got another one in. Yeah, I said, let's

00:32:39.939 - 00:32:55.209

go right now, you know, all the adrenaline's going. So I went back up and did it again. And, uh, this one too, this is just I take that stack out. But, but he says, well, you can just kind of dribble out or lay out over the

00:32:55.219 - 00:33:09.880

edge here and, and come on down. I said, no, I'm gonna have my foot right up in here and just dive out of here. Oh, wow. Ok. So, you know, that's how you, you kind of, you may, you do better with guys that if you add

00:33:09.890 - 00:33:23.219

a little bit to it and make it bigger than what they said. And, uh, but they don't, uh, they don't want to really put you in a bad spot. But if you know, if you can do better, they, they love it because it makes them look

00:33:23.229 - 00:33:39.989

better. It was getting that from here. Now, buddy gets a call and he knows this guy that he's in DC, he's a production manager and uh, he calls buddy. He said I need a guy that can do a high fall out of a window and down

00:33:40.000 - 00:33:58.300

these steps. He said there are a whole bunch of steps that go down. So, yeah, that's this one. So come to find out. So buddy says I got just the guy for you. So he says you're gonna get a call from Dave Sullivan and he's on

00:33:58.310 - 00:34:17.709

a picture called The Exorcist. I said, OK, that's that one. Yeah, that's all the steps there. It's uh three plates of 25. Anyway, you know, we were interested in, in the, the mechanics and the, the, the technical aspects of some of your stunts and the, and

00:34:17.719 - 00:34:34.729

the arts behind it. Maybe this is a good example for if you could take us through, you know, all the prep, every step the preparations and the execution of the stunt. Um, because you have this great sequence here. Right? Yeah. Ok. Well, first of all, just

00:34:34.739 - 00:34:47.060

get back, I'll get back to that. But, and then sure we'll get into this thing. But, uh, so they, so the guy calls me, he said, well, we want you to fly to, to Washington, we'll meet you there and we're gonna talk over the stunt. So

00:34:47.070 - 00:35:02.469

I get there and that's gonna come into what, what you're talking about. So they, they, we get on the location, they look at the house and the house is like, it's like tw 2020 it's this far away from the steps. And the guy said, well, we

00:35:02.479 - 00:35:14.899

were told some guy down stunk, I said, he could make it from that window to here. I said, no way you're not gonna make it that far. And I, and he says, well, that's what we want to hear. We know. And he says, well, how do

00:35:14.909 - 00:35:30.729

you see to do it? I said, well, you got to build a, a phony, uh, part of the house that, that wall, you gotta build it over here so you can reach the stairway. So it looks feasible, you know. So I said, OK, you build that

00:35:30.739 - 00:35:43.510

and then I said, I'll go out of the window down here, I'll put some boxes down. We'll hit here and then we'll cut and put the camera down on the first landing and I said, I'll build a little ramp and I'll run and I'll dive off

00:35:43.520 - 00:36:01.459

that ramp down onto the stairs. And he says, wow, he said, yeah, kill yourself. I said, I hope not. But anyway, so, um, and then we get down there and then, you know, go whatever you want with the camera wrapped up but go all the way

00:36:01.469 - 00:36:15.729

to. So what they did do anyway, we did it like I did. They said, oh, what are you gonna be doing in about a week or so? I said, well, first job comes, I'm taking it. They said, well, consider yourself employed by Warner Brothers right now.

00:36:15.739 - 00:36:32.330

So you're gonna stay, you're gonna go up to New York, we'll do the interior shots in New York. And, uh, this is again going along with how you setting up this thing. And, uh, so we'll do the interior shots going out of the window. I did

00:36:32.340 - 00:36:47.310

it three times out of the window up there in New York. Now we go down to the Washington. I did three times from the exterior coming out and freak can say, can you get a little more height? Can you when you're coming out just like the

00:36:47.320 - 00:37:01.760

devil is in you and you're just gonna gotta go out and dive way out. And I said, do what I can. I got to crash through the window first. So anyway, I did that three times and then they moved the camera down on the first landing,

00:37:03.379 - 00:37:18.370

I just run and you dive and I hit, I hit 15 steps down and I rolled up, bang right underneath the camera. I had pads in front of the mattress pads. And so then Friedman says, ok, we're gonna go all the way to the bottom. We

00:37:18.379 - 00:37:32.030

want you to do the next 50 all the way down. So I said, I'll get as far as I can until I hit something, you know, I mean, I got railings and all and no, no, you don't wear a helmet. You gotta have your this. So,

00:37:32.590 - 00:37:43.810

and he said, when you get to the bottom, now this is what directors come up with. You get to the bottom once in this grotesque looking thing because you know the devil, you're the devil's got you. Now I said, ok, so you get down and get

00:37:43.820 - 00:37:58.919

all goofed up. And I said, ok, so we do what we can do. So, ok, they're down at the bottom and now the effects guys are loading up this blood. It was in a, in a jar and puts it in a plastic thing. So as I'm

00:37:58.929 - 00:38:15.600

hitting, it's gonna be screwed down and I get to the bottom of the steps, I'm laying there and there's blood all anyway because I'm coming down the last flight and I'm going, oh, shoot, I gotta think getting into this all in a second come down, I

00:38:15.610 - 00:38:32.840

got a flu and I got right into the spot. It was all screwed up at the bottom. Never had to reset me or anything. So, but that was, oh, then I did flights of 25. They want cuts when you get going, you can't stop. So I'm

00:38:32.850 - 00:38:50.770

only gonna do 10 steps. You do the full 25 steps. You know, and I, today they have all this plastic and stuff that they wear, you know, armor and the, the turtle back and all those, I had a hip pads, elbows and I had a ski

00:38:50.780 - 00:39:05.909

vests. So I had a, and I, and one of the guys went there later on to do another call like that and he says, Chuck, I don't know how you did it without the plastic stuff. He didn't do it with the plastic. But anyway, so that's,

00:39:05.919 - 00:39:23.870

that's, that was exorcist. So, no injuries on the exorcist. No, not really. How do you, when you're doing that, how do you protect your head as you're going down? You can, you know. And, yeah, I mean, to the life person, I mean, the question is, how

00:39:23.879 - 00:39:43.060

do you do it? I mean, he had a nun praying for him. I tell him, tell him, yeah. Before I did the stunt, this is right next to, you know, Georgetown. There was a Catholic girls school right next to it. So, anyway, this non herner friend.

00:39:43.320 - 00:39:55.939

No, no, they said, wow, we'd really like you to come and talk to our class about, you know, the stunts and how Hollywood is. And I said, you know what I said, I'm not really into all that kind of stuff and, and she says, oh, it'd

00:39:55.949 - 00:40:09.790

be so nice and they get such a kick out of, I said, I'll tell you what, you use those beads for me on these steps. And I said, and I'll come and talk to your class. I said, if I'm able to do it, if I'm not

00:40:09.800 - 00:40:22.435

screwed up, I'll come and talk to your class. So I did, I did, I was fine. I had my knee was a little screwed up. So I went over to talk to like she says, there's only about three classes. We come to find out. I had

00:40:22.445 - 00:40:41.330

like five that she added a couple and girls were coming in again. They wanted to come a couple different times to hear the stories. But, but that's, yeah, the exorcist was a and then, but I got recommended that from Buddy on the High Plains Drifter. And

00:40:41.340 - 00:41:00.229

then after this because, oh, you get in maybe the wagon thing. Yeah. Ok. Because from this show then buddy knows what I by now, what I can do, right. So he's got a show that's offered to him at Swashbuckler down in Puerto Vallarta. And I just

00:41:00.239 - 00:41:17.560

about made Charlotte a, a widow before we were even married. She thought I wouldn't let her come to set that day. But anyway, uh, buddy said, Chuck, I got, we got a thing to do down in Puerto Vallarta where you're coming off a cliff in a

00:41:17.570 - 00:41:31.370

wagon. I said, oh, I'll do it. He says, don't start volunteering so fast. He said, you might change your mind. I said, but he said, I'm gonna fly three of three, you guys that are gonna do it down there and we'll look at it and let's

00:41:31.379 - 00:41:47.399

figure it out. This is more figuring it out, right. So we fly down there, there's myself two other guys and, uh, we go out to the location, buddy's on top of the hill and we're down in the water and we're standing on these rocks right where

00:41:47.409 - 00:41:59.320

he said, well, we gotta go off right here. I said, we got big boulders right here. He says, well, we'll get them blown out of the water, then we'll get them out of there for you. But what else do you need while we were standing on

00:41:59.330 - 00:42:14.669

them? So, we're looking at a high tide mark on the rocks and we said, well, we got about 6 ft of water here and if we go to the high tide, we'll probably have 12 ft of water from like 85 ft. So, um, he said, well,

00:42:14.679 - 00:42:27.530

that's what we'll go for then. So we need the water and it was gonna be at a certain date. They checked tides and all that and it was gonna be a certain date, certain time. And now we go down to do the show. Now we got

00:42:27.540 - 00:42:45.550

a few weeks of stuff going on before that. A lot of sword fighting and stuff and, and uh, so we get ready to do that thing. Charlotte. She's wondering how it's gonna go. And I said, well, you don't come to the set that day. So, um,

00:42:45.909 - 00:43:01.969

two of the guys not, not mention names but, and then this is what happens. Sometimes they rethink it. They said we aren't gonna, my one guy's got a bad knee, the other guy's got a headache and he said, we don't wanna do this buddy. So luckily

00:43:01.979 - 00:43:19.449

we had two other guys there. Uh, one black guy that could double for James Earl Jones and, uh, then the for Robert Shaw was another guy, Al Curtis. Um, so they have to re pick the guys. Well, these guys just decided, you know, not for me.

00:43:19.570 - 00:43:40.989

So, but that happens. Sometimes the guys will, they think they wanna do it and when it comes time to do it, they don't. So I, but I carried on. So how did you execute the stunt? Well, they, uh, have the, there's a chase leading up to

00:43:41.000 - 00:43:55.219

going off the cliff. I ended up chasing myself off the cliff because I was a soldier when we were chasing the wagon because we had the, uh, a stunt girl doing. I did her part for the wagon off the cliff. But anyway, so we're, we're chasing

00:43:55.699 - 00:44:13.510

the wagon and then comes time we won, we go to a certain point and then on another day, uh, I, I become the girl. But anyway, they had, uh, it was a slight incline going down to the, to the edge of the cliff. Uh, they, they

00:44:13.520 - 00:44:28.250

brushed all this in here with, this was a rounded kind of hill here. And so they had to put greens and stuff here and they build a ramp and that ramp was probably about, probably about 70 ft long. And what they do, they put the wheels

00:44:28.260 - 00:44:43.199

of the left wheels in a track, then they have a pulley down. Oh, here's the clip here. They're gonna go like that. They have a pulley here, a pulley here and then up here to a pickup truck and the pickup truck goes that way and you

00:44:43.209 - 00:45:01.439

go that way. That's how they pull you off of there. So I, uh, I, I'll throw into, they thought the wagon hit me because I, I just stepped off the wagon. Howard. The other guy says, Chuck, if we, if we better get some separation or we'll

00:45:01.449 - 00:45:17.500

collide in the air and we'll get all goofed up. So he said, I'll jump out and then you, if you will, you just kind of step off. So I did, but it looked like the wagon hit me. And, uh, but when I hit the water, I

00:45:17.510 - 00:45:33.169

had just my swim trunks and a, I had a part of a wetsuit because I figured if you get screwed up, at least you can float up pretty good. And under my wardrobe when I hit the water, if you, I was in a cannonball shot near.

00:45:33.909 - 00:45:53.159

Where is that thing there? There? I was like going into the swimming pool with your butt first. Well, it split my swim trunks. I hit so hard on, not on the sea, on the cheek. That's how hard I get it would be like dropping you from

00:45:53.169 - 00:46:04.560

the ceiling there onto the floor right here. That's what it felt like. And at first it was an initial shock and I a and, but what was great is when you look up and you, you, you're into the water, you look up and you say, wow,

00:46:04.570 - 00:46:22.889

I can see this. I'm, I'm good. I can see the surface, you know, and uh then you come up and you go, oh wow, that's, that hurts. But then they, it was good. No big deal. Um I had a question. Um, now often these shots are

00:46:22.899 - 00:46:40.050

designed so that your face is not very clear because obviously you're doubling from an actor. But, um, in cases where your face is more visible, are you expected to act like you're terrified or, uh, you know, as a normal person would? Yeah. Uh You, you do

00:46:40.060 - 00:47:11.699

anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That wasn't pretending. And, um, how did you did you have to double for women. Uh Only a few times, a couple of times. I double for JV on that. And uh Mr Majestic, the girl driving a truck, you know, doubled about

00:47:12.129 - 00:47:31.300

Mr Majestic. I must have doubled seven people. In fact, the director finally said, Chuck, we've seen you enough, don't we have somebody else who can do this? So, but yeah, uh I just, I, I forgot her name. Ok, let's see what we have now. But yeah,

00:47:31.310 - 00:47:55.300

I've had, um, the two for sure, but they won't let you do that. You can do. No, they got enough girls, girls and I imagine that you can't really blast away rocks anymore either without a lot of environmental. Ok. They don't care. We brought up the

00:47:55.310 - 00:48:12.580

Molly mcguire. Oh, yeah, I, I just love that photograph of you getting slammed in the rugby game. Yeah. You know that, you know how hard you can get with this guy. This guy is like 6 ft 6 £300. And, uh, they kicked the ball down there

00:48:12.590 - 00:48:26.189

and I intercept and they lateral and I'm thinking, you know what? Oh jeez, don't drop that ball. You know, because you get all that pressure on you like, oh, you dropped the ball. But anyway, that was the biggest, toughest part was catching the ball and then

00:48:26.199 - 00:48:39.844

we lateral back and forth and they got a pile up at the, at the goal. So I have to, I step up on and I'm diving in the air and this guy just gathers me up and bam down in the dust is clearing. They, and they

00:48:39.854 - 00:48:57.469

say, are you all right? Are you getting up? I said, yeah, I, I would do a few more. I guess so. Yeah, that was, yeah. Did you do that a few times? I did it three or four times different camera angles and, but yeah, that was

00:48:57.479 - 00:49:16.719

Richard Harris was in this, here's Richard Harris and uh Sean Connery, there's a picture of him I think here with when I'm coming out of the hay mouth. Yeah, this one. That's a good story. Oh, yeah, it was. It is really, I forget some, see why

00:49:16.729 - 00:49:34.320

she's here. Anyway, these three guys are coming. Uh They're the Molly Maguire and uh I'm, I'm a company cop and, and so I see Sean go by and I see this other guy coming. So, but I don't see Richard Harris. And so I jumped down and

00:49:34.330 - 00:49:47.350

get Art Lunn, who's this guy in this picture? Grab him. Richard Harris comes up behind. Now we had done this a few times with, he's got a rubber gun and he's hit me in the head and I get down on the ground. Now they, now they

00:49:47.360 - 00:49:59.969

say we're gonna have to fire the gun in the real, in the next shot. So we need a real gun. It's got a little lanyard loop on the bottom of the of the butt. So I said, now Richard, all you have to do is come by

00:49:59.979 - 00:50:20.439

my head and hit my shoulder. It'll, it'll look just like you hit me in the actors, they really get into it, you know, full bore. And so I jump out of him on, bang on the head. I go down golly, those blue and white and red

00:50:20.449 - 00:50:36.739

stars the whole night and I, and I hear him but I didn't go out but I, I could hear and they said, oh, shoot, he's bleeding. I got the, the bloods coming down. But so he felt bad and uh he sends me a note really sorry

00:50:36.750 - 00:50:57.479

for what happened and he sends me a case of Jim Beam whiskey because he was a real drinker. I mean, so he must have figured everybody drank like him. So anyway, yeah, that was interesting. Yeah. So I guess uh typically a stunt, uh men get to

00:50:57.489 - 00:51:13.459

intermingle with the actors. Uh These shots are, are done in the same scene or, or very close together or maybe are there cases where it's like a second unit? Director, second unit. That's what Mickey did. Mickey Moore did that. He was a second unit. Uh Most

00:51:13.469 - 00:51:33.889

all the action uh and you know, break off unit because it saves a lot of time. The guy is, is specialized in that business. He knows what the action should be. And uh so it's turned over to like a second unit group. But, uh, I did

00:51:33.899 - 00:51:50.439

some second unit myself too. Uh, most of the car stuff or pick off a couple of little shots, you know, they, they didn't get it. So go get that guy jumping off the roof and run him away, you know. So what we do stunt, um, men

00:51:50.449 - 00:52:04.870

typically work pretty closely with the actors. Very close. Yeah, like, say you're gonna do a fight a lot of times I've had to take, uh, actors and, and, uh, go work out the routines with them a lot of time too. You go on a show, you

00:52:04.879 - 00:52:17.909

don't know what the actors can do. You've never worked with them. So you go to a gym and see how they work and, you know, you get into their heads and try to see sometimes they think they can do it but they really can't. Uh, well,

00:52:17.919 - 00:52:36.540

like even the westerns, uh, for weeks they would take actors out to a ranch and they'd ride horses every day. I mean, so you, you gotta look like in a western that you grew up on a horse, you know. So, um, but, oh, we've had like,

00:52:36.870 - 00:52:54.840

like personal friends uh with Martin Sheen and Sean Conner. Uh Sean K, uh I got probably closer to him than Martin. But, but, and then they will call you on shows like Martin got me on a after apo, I worked with him on Apocalypse. Now, double

00:52:54.850 - 00:53:19.800

them, uh doing a fight with Marlon Brando at the end of the picture and uh then with Sean uh from Bad Boys for quite a while. After that, he'd call me on different shows to, to be his stunt coordinator. Mhm Let's see. Next we have the

00:53:19.899 - 00:53:40.699

paras you do. Oh Yeah, this one was an example where you perform as an actor as well, right? Where you're on the screen, you deliberately, your face is on the screen. Oh, I was Assassin. Yeah, I shot a senator and uh then I take off and

00:53:40.709 - 00:53:57.239

run and this, this thing over here, this, this thing is like 600 ft off the ground. So the chase goes, I go up, I run outside after I shoot the guy. OK, I take off. Now they got CIA guys there around and they chase me up

00:53:57.250 - 00:54:16.270

and I go up on the roof for this thing and uh they're trying to catch me and, and so this, I got, there's a little struggle goes on and I know that I got to go between these two floors and lights. That's my spot. So then

00:54:16.280 - 00:54:32.580

we were up here too far and the director they, they slid him up on a rope. He would not get off the top of that rope on his butt. He slid him up. Anyway, he was a little afraid of height. But uh anyway, so I put

00:54:32.590 - 00:54:50.120

a four by eight sheet of plywood below the roof on an angle up against the, the, the suicide prevention like a glass area that you can view out and out there is the railing. So, and then some mattress pads and I do the struggle, these guys

00:54:50.129 - 00:55:03.669

with him mainly and, uh, struggle, struggle. And, uh, and we were way up here and the director says, well, it's gonna, you're taking too long to roll. I said, well, fine, we move it close to the, you know, so we did, moved it down. But see,

00:55:03.679 - 00:55:16.110

that's where you come in, you got to tell them how to make it work because a lot of times where they're the way they're doing it is not gonna work anyway, you come up with a different plan. So I roll off the edge, hit the bed.

00:55:16.270 - 00:55:30.139

Now they want a shot. They don't know how they're gonna hand it. Am I gonna be out on the suicide prevention thing or am I gonna go? Ah, so they had to get a shot. I walk out on the suicide prevention. Now, these rails are like

00:55:30.149 - 00:55:52.520

for me, if I turn, I could go through them, but to be perpendicular, you're ok. So I had to walk out on that thing, lay down, you're looking down 600 ft. Uh So that was, that was that one or these also stunt guys. This is a,

00:55:52.530 - 00:56:12.929

this was our coordinator. This is Paul Baxley and his son was Craig Baxley. He was one of the guys too. And then Freddie Shyer, all stunt guys. Yeah. You've never been scared of heights, I guess not. Yeah. Are you standing on? This is where scouting we're

00:56:12.939 - 00:56:32.399

talking over right here? That's, that's up on the, that's there and we're talking over the stunt and then they put it in the, the, uh, TV guide. They showed this picture TV guide. Mhm. How often did you get to double yourself as it were where you

00:56:32.409 - 00:56:55.689

actually played the character? Like the Assassin or a lot? A lot of like Clint Eastwood things. I think I was all the time. Did, did you enjoy that, by the way, Clint's one of the best guys to work with. He's one of the real good guys

00:56:55.699 - 00:57:17.550

to work with. He's so easy going and nonchalant about things and, and, uh, I can't see, yeah, this was on, you say play yourself, you, I was a bike biker on the, the, uh, black Widows from Pacoima. That's, that's that one. But every which way. But,

00:57:18.219 - 00:57:34.449

yeah, and then we're rehearsing the fight there and here this is at his mother's house and the old lady starts shooting up, getting all these bikers out of her yard, get out of my yard and she's shooting a shotgun. So the guys are going, I get

00:57:34.459 - 00:57:47.939

clothes lined off my bike. Now, was that a, was that to simulate a gunshot or was it? No, no, it was just, the rope was across the tree. So, when I, um, you know, I just go on and the rope catches you and pulls you off

00:57:47.949 - 00:58:10.620

the bike. Yeah, that wasn't what you're thinking of when a guy gets shot and they have a cable on him, they pull you off. Now here's the, the gang picture I'm in the middle and then Clint, for those who don't know, that's like 100% clean right

00:58:10.780 - 00:58:33.179

there. Um, I just, were there any, uh, jobs that you had to turn down because you didn't have a particular skill? Um, hm. Were there any jobs you turned down for any reason? Uh, yeah, I wasn't available mainly. Luckily sometimes. But, yeah, I can't really think

00:58:33.189 - 00:58:48.870

of hardly anything. I turned down. I was lucky again. I'm not bragging but I was into a lot of different areas of stunts to where you're gonna work more. You know, if you're like this, some of the guys are specialized or the, uh, they wouldn't, they

00:58:48.879 - 00:59:07.310

won't call him there again. The coordinator usually knows what you can do and, uh, you know, that's why he called you. So you have that knowing when you go in, he knows I can do this otherwise I wouldn't be here. So, and then to, like, uh,

00:59:07.790 - 00:59:24.340

getting into, like, who hires you is, uh, it can come from the director. Producer, an assistant director can turn your name in and, uh, even sometimes wardrobe people, they're, they're trying to think, oh, shoot. Who's a good double for this guy because we only have this

00:59:24.350 - 00:59:38.780

one set of clothes and this has got to fit. Oh, I know guys, Chuck can fit this. I'm telling you. It comes to that. Even here I went on an interview one time. They said, oh, your hair is perfect. Oh, good. You're hired. It's that, that's

00:59:38.790 - 01:00:02.070

what, that's how you get it. It's amazing salary that today, you know, I think today it's about 800 bucks. I think a day when I started, I think it was 75 or something like that. But, yeah, it's probably 800. And then to the stunts though, that

01:00:02.080 - 01:00:22.060

is what you wanna get into is the, they're negotiable. Depends on the, the skill, the danger. How many times you do it like that wagon thing. We did it once. That was good enough and, and it was, I forget what we got for that. But it

01:00:22.070 - 01:00:36.570

was at the time. It was pretty good. I think 4000 something like that. Yeah. But like car stuff. It depends. Everything is how many times you do it. Uh, if they want you to do some, another thing is if you're gonna do, like, you've seen barroom

01:00:36.580 - 01:00:54.649

brawls where there's 1015, 20 guys in a fight. It's a blanket r, and yet I used to be the one going over and over the railing over into the window because I was light and some big guy picking me up and throwing me but blanket 100

01:00:54.659 - 01:01:26.639

and 50 everybody, you know. But I didn't care. She. Mhm. Mm. Uh, deer hunter. Mhm. Well, that's a story. Um, here we were just again checking out the chopper guys, they were tie, uh, police, they flew, they flew the royal family. That's so that's not that

01:01:27.030 - 01:01:41.010

it up for the film. No, no, this is rehearsal, rehearsal to see how, see how we're hanging on here. They want to check how the weight is going to be with a couple of guys hanging on the skid and they probably somebody said, go see all

01:01:41.020 - 01:01:54.959

the stunt guys hang on there, see how they're gonna do, you know. So that was these, these pictures here we're just rehearsing. In fact, Charlotte and her girl, her friends were at the swimming pool because we'd come up the river and our hotel was right by

01:01:54.969 - 01:02:11.219

the river and that's all there was, was the hotel in the middle of the jungle. No, that was it hours northwest of Bangkok. And uh anyway, here we're hanging on the skids and they're down at the pool as we fly by with their drinks and have

01:02:11.229 - 01:02:33.149

you have a nice time. But uh anyway, the, the, the story with this, I did the beginning of the picture, I got, I was doubling De Niro and I know I, I got, I doubled John Savage on that. Anyway, um uh to, to start the, the

01:02:33.159 - 01:02:48.860

Vietnam sequence is uh de Niro is there and he sees this Vietnamese guy throw a grenade into this pit where all these people are. And this girl comes out and then the Vietnamese guy shoots her. But then I become the Vietnamese cause De Niro sees he's

01:02:48.870 - 01:03:05.770

got a flame thrower. He picks up the flame thrower and shoots me with the flame thrower. So that was the start of it then later on. Now, did you see the deer hunter a long time ago? But anyway, uh, they, the three guys are, are prisoners

01:03:05.780 - 01:03:23.590

in a Vietnamese prison camp and they're gonna escape. They get, they catch a log going down the river and there's two choppers coming up the river and the first chopper he goes by and there's two guys hanging on the skids. That's Jack and I going up

01:03:23.600 - 01:03:40.800

the river. Now, later on, uh, they're gonna do the scene where the three guys catch this bridge, a cable bridge hanging down the river. They catch hold of that and they're gonna, the second chopper turns around and they're gonna pick these three guys up the three

01:03:40.850 - 01:03:57.399

acres. Well, um, in one of the shots then what, what happens later is the one, the guy who was doubling, he, he's weak because he's been in this, in the water and everything. So, so, so he can't hang on it. He drops, breaks his legs. But

01:03:57.409 - 01:04:18.110

getting to do that. Now, I'm in the chopper on another scene. We've got like a cat pilot copilot director, cinematographer, two gunners myself. A guy sitting here on the floor, a cameraman and Chris walking and he's going berserk because he will get my buddies, get him,

01:04:18.120 - 01:04:32.179

get him in there. He's going berserk and I'm right next to him. I'm going, you know, I'm trying to keep him calm and all of a sudden I feel a guy pulling on my, well, it's, I know it's the camera guy, I'm maybe blocking. So I

01:04:32.189 - 01:04:48.479

move over and, and he's pulling again. I said, shoot how clear I can't get over anymore and be touching the guy. So I looked down and he goes, we're stuck on the cable, I thought, oh, shoot, ok. Take my home. The choppers stuck on this bridge

01:04:48.989 - 01:05:07.510

and people are bailing on, they're going to all directions. You get that thing, they're ready gonna be an explosion. So the camera crew on the ground, they take off the Act De Niro and Savage. Jump in the river. They're going down the river because that we're

01:05:07.520 - 01:05:24.870

stuck with this skid. So I take my helmet off and get out on the side of the chopper. I said, OK, take it down, take it down and we get down. And I said, and these guys are good and I said, move it back. OK, here

01:05:24.879 - 01:05:43.159

we go and then we take off. But we couldn't for a calm helicopter about it. Yeah, he was good. Good because if he had kept on going. They, they would have, we could have done it and when he starts pulling up, we'd have done a endo

01:05:44.540 - 01:06:06.780

we got all those people on that chopper, Michael Cino. And yeah, but that was, that was that one of the things that happened on that show, all kind of excitement. And then you do the stunt dropping, dropping into the water and another 65 70 ft into

01:06:06.790 - 01:06:21.729

that river and going up one day one Sunday, we're on a little cruise to check it out before we start filming. And we're looking on the sand bar and I said, oh, look at, there's one of those big old lizards. Well, I'm monitor lizard. Jack says

01:06:21.830 - 01:06:44.270

that's a crocodile, don't monitor lizard. And we got to work in that river and Cobras in, in, uh, Thailand, there's 37 varieties of poisonous snakes. So, any snake you see poisonous, but, and you didn't know where you were going to be dropping into the river. Well,

01:06:44.290 - 01:07:03.810

we hoped, but it didn't work that way. Yeah. But anyway, that's, uh, that's after we jumped out the helicopter and there's De Niro and John Savage. That's me there. I think you call that a safety boat on the back of the photo. Yeah. They pick up

01:07:03.820 - 01:07:24.780

boat, pick up boat. Yeah. Yeah, because after we go in, there was general night, another part I did that myself. So, did you end up doing a stunt in that as that? Character. No, that was just an extra quick thing we did. Uh when they're evacuating,

01:07:24.790 - 01:07:42.300

Saigon helicopters will land on the rope up and people are loading up and we got to go out the gate in the jeep. This guy was uh he was like construction guy. They just put him in a uniform to drive a Jeep. Yeah, they do that.

01:07:42.800 - 01:08:01.669

You know, some directors just pick out somebody. Hey, he looks good. Get him in here, especially when you're in Thailand or someplace like that. Charlotte, did you often travel with Chuck to the sites a lot? I did a lot. You've been all over the world? Yeah,

01:08:02.260 - 01:08:22.060

actually, um, yeah, this is actually a good segue. Um, because Charlotte is in this photograph. Oh, good. Yeah, this is Eagle Wing. Eagles Wing. Yeah. And that Charlie Sheen, right. For everybody who knows Charlie Sheen. He was, wanted to be a baseball player and his dad

01:08:22.069 - 01:08:38.279

drug him down there at Martin Sheen. Got him down to Durango, Mexico. It was a western. Now, see, there's another thing I got this show from Martin because I doubled them on Apocalypse. So he said I get Chuck do it. So, and, uh, it was really

01:08:38.290 - 01:08:58.560

an English production as far as like doubling, you know, and usually again when you're doubling the horse back and there's, it's, uh, you're so, you're far enough away that you can't really tell, you know, Martin couldn't ride, he couldn't get on the horse, let alone ride

01:08:58.569 - 01:09:19.950

it. He could ride a little. You mostly do horseback for this. Mhm. Mhm. Yeah. So, how did, how did you two meet? Oh, let's see. I was, I was hoping you'd ask you wanted to feel. Well, I was on a Clint Eastwood picture. You know, I

01:09:19.959 - 01:09:38.250

went up to Montana. I thought Great Falls, whoever heard of Great Falls? Montana. So, and with buddy again because it's Clint Eastwood. And, uh, so the last night, well, first of all, I got to know her girlfriend because she was a waitress at our hotel and

01:09:38.259 - 01:09:54.649

jabbered with her and got to know her. And so we had a chase scene to do in, in the town at night. And Terry, her girlfriend brings Charlotte down on the street that night to look at the loca and watch the, the wrecks, you know, whatever

01:09:54.660 - 01:10:13.600

we're doing. Oh, the right through the window with the car. And so, uh, she introduces me to Charlotte and I just talk for 10 minutes because you guys were, you had to go back to work. So anyway, she took off and the next day I see

01:10:14.220 - 01:10:27.020

Terry had breakfast. I said it was a neat girl you had with you last night. She's really nice. I said, well, you know, it's my last day here. I'd, I'd call her, I'd find out her number. She said, well, I can give you her number. So

01:10:27.180 - 01:10:42.209

I said, ok, I'm going back up to my room and call her. So I, I called her at work and jabbered with her for quite a while. And then, uh, I told her, well, I'm going on a location on Mr Majestic with Bronson. I said, I'll

01:10:42.220 - 01:10:58.000

call you from there. I got to know her the next, what, six weeks or so that I was there jabber with her, get to know her over the phone. And then I went back up there after the show and it's no, I came down to California.

01:10:58.189 - 01:11:25.819

You invited me down to California. So I came down to, well, it's a couple of years ago, 40 years ago, but just then I moved down in January. That location Romance. I'm a location bride. Is that actually a term? Yeah. Yeah, that's cool. Yeah, it is.

01:11:26.439 - 01:11:51.569

But, so that's where that started. And it's been, we've been married, got married two years later. So I didn't want to jump into anything. Mm. But yeah, she's been, like we said, Thailand the Philippines. Uh, we had a great show in Europe called European Vacation with

01:11:51.580 - 01:12:14.790

Mickey Moore, Mickey Moore, London, Paris, Rome, Italy, Northern Italy. Well, you're running out of film. No, we're good. Ok. So she's, she's been all over. I, I'm probably one of the most traveled stunt guys. Uh There's three of us and we're all in the same ranks

01:12:14.930 - 01:12:35.970

as far as ability, uh, directing all that. But, um, that we're, I didn't go on, I didn't go on a few of them. Thank goodness, like Tunisia and, and the Raiders and not the greatest places. I got all the good spots. Who are these other two

01:12:35.979 - 01:12:51.479

that you've mentioned? Um You said there were three of us uh, this time? Oh J uh yeah, I, his name is Glenn Randall. I call him Jr because he's a cowboy and that's where we came up, you know. But Jr and then Terry Leonard, who was

01:12:51.490 - 01:13:09.299

the other guy. And if you look them up on like IM DB, their lists are like that. It's like people look at Im DB and you see it, they can't put all the stuff in there that you've done, you know. But no, the, the, a lot

01:13:09.310 - 01:13:26.669

of the work I got was from recommendations from other people. Uh, like the High Plains went to the extra system and the, uh, well, buddy already knew me from that. So I got that cliff thing and he recommended me to a top notch car guy because

01:13:26.680 - 01:13:44.240

he said I did good in cars. And I used, I worked with him and a lot of it's just referring and, you know, recommending and like they say, you're only as good as your last job. And so luckily you did good and ok. Uh, speaking of

01:13:44.250 - 01:14:05.350

traveling, did your Children ever come on site with you? Once? A couple of times? Our youngest daughter, a couple of times, Clint Eastwood, which way it was the bike. Bikers. Yeah, but not too much. They were in school and sure. So it was hard. How many

01:14:05.359 - 01:14:32.560

Children do you do you have? Oh, he has four. But I call them my, she's just like, uh, the mother to them, they'll call me. Hey, dad is Charlotte. There, there you are. Yeah. Are you doing? Ok. I'm doing fine. Just about 1130 maybe half an

01:14:32.569 - 01:14:53.060

hour or more. You see how it goes? It's up to you. Ok. Laurie's gonna have to go in about 15 minutes. Carry on without her. For this is hockey to freeway. Oh, that was fun. That was a fun show. Yeah. Uh, well. Oh, you, yeah, we

01:14:53.069 - 01:15:10.959

mentioned that right. Yeah. And then on that I was telling this actor that screwed up his leg but yet you never saw him out of the truck. So, except, yeah, here. But he, I did that. So I said, why do I have to go with a

01:15:10.970 - 01:15:24.939

lamp when you don't even see the guy in the picture with a lamp? No. You know. But anyway, so I, I have, I had to entice that I'm going come on, come on, you know, to get him to chase me at the right hour. Yeah. Right.

01:15:25.839 - 01:15:40.120

So then I had another shop that's not here where we were first catching the Rhino up in Salt Lake and uh they put these little bales of hay and they, so if something goes wrong, you run and jump behind the bale of hay. That thing went

01:15:40.129 - 01:15:56.919

through that B A like, like it wasn't even there. And I got a picture, I'm standing with a broom like this. But I had a way out like here I told all these people their car, it's all extra cars and uh I said I might be

01:15:56.930 - 01:16:11.910

bailing over to your trunk or you rearing the car any time if this thing comes after me, you know. So you always, you have, you gotta have a way out, there's a way somewhere. How did they get there right now? Uh I don't know where they

01:16:11.919 - 01:16:27.020

got it for. Oh, well, it was, the scene was, I think they got it from California but they brought it up to Salt Lake and the, the story was they were shipping this Rhino to a warm climate. So we had to capture it. And so because

01:16:27.029 - 01:16:46.339

this was in Florida. But uh oh th this too, I had to drive this, this five ton truck through a motor home. And uh we had done a lot of other stunts up to this, a lot of car stuff. And uh we got two people sitting

01:16:46.350 - 01:17:02.939

right here and I got, you put that on you to where, you know, there's two people sitting in that in that if you get off a little bit, they're in trouble. The, the RV was stationary, it was stationary and uh but we put a sheet of

01:17:02.950 - 01:17:19.120

Lexan right behind the cab and, I mean, they stiffen it all up and, I mean, it'd take a lot to get through the main thing that, well, a truck could go through it but any debris, you know, that would fly wouldn't hit them. So that, and

01:17:19.129 - 01:17:34.729

then I did another shot where they, uh, I'm just cruising down the road and then this guy, he, he blows his, the, the cannon in his car and I'm looking in the mirror. I, oh, shoot that's coming from my car. I just, I laid over in

01:17:34.740 - 01:18:00.750

the seat, it smashed my roof in effect. No, that part wasn't really plan. Um But did you often work with animals? Uh No, only horses, horses will, of course. Yeah, but anything other than that? No, I had another shot we had to do on FBI. It

01:18:00.759 - 01:18:13.180

was called and this other stunt guy and there's a scene where my guy is escaping and he runs and the zoo keeper is going along and he, and he, and we hit the bag and a rattlesnake comes out. And so I told the guys, oh, great.

01:18:13.189 - 01:18:35.319

I said we can do a fight right by the rattlesnake and, and he could, you know, be like he's gonna attack, you know, bite and he says, what's this? We stuff we aren't gonna do that. I said, come on you chicken. Ok. Right. Let's see. We

01:18:35.330 - 01:18:52.750

just have one photo from the Indiana Jones trilogy. This is Oren mccall and I was doubling a little kid, the kid actor. Right. Right. Yeah, the little guy and that's me there because he was driving the car in the film because he pulls up in the

01:18:52.759 - 01:19:12.509

car and then the few people came out and down through the roof of the car. And then, yeah, that was, uh, second Indiana Jones. Uh, you don't have a picture of you shooting Harrison? No, but I sent a thing to where there's two, I think, two,

01:19:12.520 - 01:19:28.359

couple of swordsmen and in the first show, he, uh, he's got this real big guy and he's got the sword and we even rehearsed a thing in Spielberg right here and, and, uh, I'm gonna play a butcher and I, I'm supposed to take this ham and

01:19:28.370 - 01:19:41.939

the guy comes with the sword and I move the ham over and I'm doing so and the sword come down, cut the ham and Harrison's by the calendar there. And he says, look, he says, I got the gun, why don't I just shoot the son of

01:19:41.950 - 01:19:57.580

a gun? He says, let's try that. So, you know, there always is a problem. If you got a gun, you're gonna shoot the guy. So he said I shoot him and that's how it was in the picture. But now you go to the second movie and

01:19:57.870 - 01:20:10.180

I'm one of the two guys that come out with the swords and we go like this and he goes for the gun, he doesn't have his gun because that's what he did in the other picture. So he takes the whip out and I come at him

01:20:10.240 - 01:20:22.479

and he, I go over his shoulder and we do this whole routine and he whips the other guy sword out. But we were the first two guys that come out and we go like this, you know, and, uh, then we, like I said, we did the

01:20:22.490 - 01:20:36.509

fight and then he runs out on the bridge and they, they're coming both sides. Then we, now we go through the bridge thing where they cut the bridge and now you got all these stunt guys gonna fall off that thing, you know. So anyway, that was,

01:20:37.009 - 01:20:50.759

but this shot here, I was uh the, the kids driving and there's a rickshaw in the way. And so I have to hit that rickshaw and I, they had a big pole on the car and I'm supposed to steer. I said the thing isn't working, right.

01:20:50.770 - 01:21:02.330

So I said, get rid of the pole. I'll push the stone of a gun and guide him without the pole. And I did and I, and I got to make a left turn, but I launch him into this alley. He's got people in the rich and

01:21:02.339 - 01:21:17.350

he's up in the air like this and then I make a left turn and then we, we got the chase going by a lot of times some things don't work and you've got to improvise, make it work. I hear Charlotte say that you were dragged for

01:21:17.359 - 01:21:33.819

one of the films. No, that was, no, that was Terry. I mean, on the side of the car when you shoot Harrison. Oh, right. Yes, true. The same movie. Yeah, I thought you meant when Terry was doubling Harrison Ford under the truck right now. Uh, no,

01:21:33.830 - 01:21:50.729

I, uh, I'm the second last German soldier and I come out alongside and I pulled my gun and I shoot Harrison and now he kicks the door open and I'm dragging right by the wheels out of the truck and over the edge of this cliff thing.

01:21:51.290 - 01:22:08.410

And then, uh, finally the trucks I supposedly let go and the truck runs over me, you know, but I did a ladder thing where they go through a construction site, there's people working all over and I'm on a ladder and here comes Terry and the truck

01:22:08.419 - 01:22:29.589

had to push the ladder back and get out of the way. How did, how did, uh Spielberg direct? The stunt? Was he involved with the stunt coordinator? It was, that was the last time with Mickey Moore. Mickey Moore. Yeah. Yeah, that's where I first worked with

01:22:29.600 - 01:22:53.850

Mickey on the first Raiders and then the second one and then the third one and see he request me on. So you're coming from the top guy, you know, and, uh, you can't say, yeah, then I, and then called, then Jrg Randall, the other guy I

01:22:53.859 - 01:23:08.540

told you of the three of us. Uh, he worked with Mickey on quite a few of them too. And then, uh, he got real busy and he couldn't do the European vacation show. So he said, Chuck, I'm gonna tell Mickey take you then that's how I

01:23:08.549 - 01:23:31.509

started working with Mickey with coordinating, but it worked good. Became a real close friend as you guys know. Yeah, let's see. We got a few more here. We can do the train thing. Did you get the train? I don't know. Let me tell you why I

01:23:31.520 - 01:24:02.169

wanna mention that. Which film is that one? Oh, yeah. Bring that over. Yeah. Well, this was on Distant Thunder up in Vancouver. Uh what switch? And there's the uh what the scene is is I'm doubling Ralph Nashville and he's trying to get acro he knows he's

01:24:02.180 - 01:24:14.399

got to get across his crossing because his dad is going to commit suicide and stand on the road tracks. What they do? These guys from Vietnam come back and they're all screwed up in their head. And so they decide, go stand on the tracks, let the

01:24:14.410 - 01:24:31.790

train hit him. Well, he knows that's where his dad's going. So anyway, he's got to beat this train. So where you, well, you see what it is. I, I'm going up alongside the, the, the train trying to, I gotta beat it at the crossing So we

01:24:31.799 - 01:24:51.660

did that like five times and, uh, you see how close it was. That's, but to me it's, it's moving. That would, yeah, the train is doing probably about 20 maybe 20 miles an hour. But still it's a lot of weight to hit, hit a car at

01:24:51.669 - 01:25:14.640

any speed. And, uh, but why I bring that up is to me that was probably the closest, uh, time that I could have got screwed up bad. That's the one that comes to mind. How do you time something like that to get it right carefully? No,

01:25:14.649 - 01:25:30.270

you know what? It's, uh, there's, again, there's some guys, they wouldn't do that, they would not want to do that because they don't have the timing. Uh, it, it is tough. In fact, uh, Rick, the director of how I got on the show. He, uh, he

01:25:30.279 - 01:25:44.709

said at one of the times he says the crew go, he's not gonna make it, he's not gonna make it. He said he'll make it and I made it, but he knew me, you know, and yet it is a, it's a tough timing thing because the

01:25:44.720 - 01:25:57.049

trains, well, the train is probably right where the wall is there and here's the street because you got all the dirt and junk in here before you get to the tracks and you gotta just be far enough ahead to know that you can make it past

01:25:57.060 - 01:26:13.399

the train and you know what I did it in high school. That's where I got my train. I used to go to work with the train in high school. Yeah. Yeah, when I was going to work, in fact, I had these kids with me and again,

01:26:13.410 - 01:26:27.029

that's what you do when you're a teenager, you know, I had three other guys with me and we go to work down at this factory, you know, after school or in the drafting. And, uh so, but the tracks parallel this road and you have to make

01:26:27.040 - 01:26:44.700

crossing right here to go down to the next crossing. So here's a train coming and I said we can beat that thing cut across. The one kid tells his mom won't let him ride with me anymore. But anyway, so I did that trick before and didn't

01:26:44.709 - 01:27:13.649

get a penny for it. But yeah, so that's, that's that one. Um The nickels, nickels and dimes. Yeah, that's a good story. Oh, yeah. Yeah, I remember you, you like that. The chicken coop. Yeah, that was uh there's two of us were doubling, two guys were

01:27:13.660 - 01:27:32.959

doubling the actors and they're being chased by all these squad cars and we have to uh I could put it this way but the, the start and the finish mainly. Um we don't, it's cliff coming up and we're looking back and you get the shot with

01:27:32.970 - 01:27:46.129

the actors looking back and then the next thing, you know, the cameras are down here by the chicken goop. Well, we had a real chicken coop but no roof we have, it's black. So when you're looking at, you can't see like light in that. And we,

01:27:46.140 - 01:27:58.410

what we do, we're gonna crash our bikes into these boxes. Well, the effects guys said, look, we need chicken launchers. We're gonna put them all here at the edge. So they want to have chicken. So when we crash inside the chickens come flying out of the

01:27:58.419 - 01:28:13.950

window. I said, well, you know, our boxes won't. We, we're gonna have boxes. No, you can't. We gotta have that chicken. I said, OK, fine, do it. So we go back up and, and now this other guy is a hot shoe bike rider and I said,

01:28:13.959 - 01:28:29.930

he's not gonna beat me at the edge of the cliff. So we get to the edge of the cliff flying off and I feel I'm just gonna lay back on my bike and I'll fall off. Well, I've got cast with the bike, go crashing out through

01:28:29.939 - 01:28:45.819

the front wall and ended up just missing a four by four post and the chickens and I got buddy there and all these guys, other stunt guys that were doing the chasing and they're going chuck. Are you? Ok? And everybody says this is the third, one

01:28:45.830 - 01:29:02.259

of your, one of, this is three of your lives. You used up. I saw the other two on one deer hunter and, or whatever the other couple No, heaven's gate where a wagon buried me in a, in a river half, I was half in, half out.

01:29:03.319 - 01:29:27.419

But, yeah, that was the chicken goop thing. So I mentioned heaven's gate. Uh, I heard that that was quite a production. Yeah, I think Columbia went broke over it. This is what they did. Yeah. Uh, what was it? That was Michael. Um, Jin Jin. Right. No,

01:29:27.430 - 01:29:41.810

go ahead. What was it like to work with him? For me? It was fine, but he was kind of crazy. He was, uh, in fact, on deer hunter again, that's how buddy got the job. Buddy was a coordinator on Heaven's gate because he had done all.

01:29:41.819 - 01:30:00.120

And Michael Cimino did thunderbolt and lightfoot. So it started there and then he did deer hunter. Well, I was, I'm deer hunter. Um, and he over there, he, he'd get so mad. He'd throw radios. Remember the song guy says I gotta keep sending for radios. He

01:30:00.129 - 01:30:14.890

throws them in the river all and he's mad. So he, he'd get a little crazy. Oh, and he threw a, he threw up a tire or a news guy. He threw him in the river, get off my set that, that, that throws him in the river.

01:30:14.899 - 01:30:31.009

So he had a bat and they were waiting for him for heaven's gate. They, they were gonna put that show down and they did because to me it was a good picture and it had a lot of production value. Uh But, but he was just crazy

01:30:31.020 - 01:30:52.689

to kind of different, you know, but there again he liked buddy, buddy's work and so buddy go, I get to go. But, you know, that was, oh, they had a lot of, a lot of people were getting hurt too like actors. Uh 11, they have these

01:30:52.700 - 01:31:09.009

explosions with these pots and one of the actors rode his horse over right when the explosion went off, screwed up the horse and the actor, I don't know. Something happened to him too, but he didn't, he didn't die. But yeah, we got, and then we got

01:31:09.020 - 01:31:24.350

that area too where I've known a few guys that I put it in here. They don't make it the next day. You know, they get guys, one thing in New York, a guy crashed a car in a river and he, the windshield came in on him

01:31:24.359 - 01:31:41.890

and he couldn't get out and another guy flipped a pickup truck over and, and, uh, got buried in the mud in the river and, and I couldn't, he had air but I guess he just didn't get to it. Other guys high falls trying to break records.

01:31:41.899 - 01:32:02.060

A girl I heard on a show, uh, she was going for a record and a high fall and paralyzed herself. And so there's some of that going on too. Oh, another guy that scott this guy that he, uh, if you do a high fall and you're

01:32:02.069 - 01:32:14.209

gonna hit something, right. A railing here, it's gonna take you right straight down next to the wall. You can't get away. It's hard to get away. You can tap it a little bit and, and get out of ways. But you gotta count on sliding right down

01:32:14.220 - 01:32:38.140

the wall. And, uh, this, this one guy, he, he, he didn't have the pads in enough and he went right down. That was it for him. So, these people you knew, well, not the guy in New York. No, but I knew one guy pretty well too.

01:32:38.149 - 01:32:54.990

He did a high fall right over there at Bronson Canyon where the cave is up by Beachwood up that way. Uh, he did 100 footer and I was, no, that was a different one. I was gonna, I think I was out for that one. But he,

01:32:55.000 - 01:33:07.939

uh, and you get the final say in the stunt. If you think the bag should be in or out, you, you have to say it, you know. So the coordinator, I gotta say, he asked him, what do you need? Anything we can do? No, everything's good.

01:33:07.950 - 01:33:23.069

Well, there was a little uphill before you take off the edge and it was gravelly and they could see he hit short of the pad. He came in like this is the pad, he came in and went into the edge and that was it. So they

01:33:23.080 - 01:33:42.290

went up and they looked, and they saw a scuff mark where he didn't get the push off that he needed. That was Tyree and, well, this was kind of, it wasn't filming but Howard, one of the guys in the uh wagon thing, Howard Curtis that was

01:33:42.299 - 01:34:02.609

doing it for Robert Shaw. Just doing his thing in skydiving. He jumped out and there was a guy opened up too soon below him. He crashed right into the parachute and both of them done. But that's a lot of the training and this is where like

01:34:02.620 - 01:34:21.680

these guys came from, you know, they, they, they were in that type of a sport and like the rodeo guys, they're, they're gonna stick with the horses they're doing, you know, a lot of the westerns were a lot of rodeo guys, but did any of that

01:34:21.689 - 01:34:43.169

make you question continuing? No, I never did. Never had any of that. Did I? No, you're gonna do it no matter what. That's right. You shake out where I am. We're gonna do that stunt too. Yeah. And again, the guys know what you can do, you

01:34:43.180 - 01:34:57.759

know, they'll call you. Like I worked with a buddy for so many, I got like 13 shows. I wrote them down in case I had to refer you and, and I got, I got, uh, just with Clint. Yeah, then, then deer hunter and, and the, the

01:34:57.770 - 01:35:14.069

pirate things and you get in with the guy, he knows what you can do and you're part of that team and you know, they, they count on you, they know it, what they can get out of you, what to expect. And uh one time I gotta

01:35:14.080 - 01:35:28.859

tell you another little thing with buddy, we're on this pirate thing and they got a big sword fight thing with about 40 guys in this uh in a prison. And so, uh you work out a routine, you gotta have like 1015 counts with your sword, you

01:35:28.870 - 01:35:45.879

know, with your other guy. And so I got this thing with uh with, with Larry. Larry and I are fighting and, and now buddy comes, now we're ready to roll, buddy says, come here, Chuck, come here, we do this little routine. I gotta forget the routine

01:35:45.890 - 01:36:00.419

I just had with and now these he goes, he's got to find something to do, Larry. So work out this routine. We're right in front of camera. Now. You think that doesn't put a little pressure on you? I mean, you gotta learn that right now and

01:36:00.430 - 01:36:17.509

then he hits me in the head with the sword. Oh Jeez. Oh That didn't hurt. And he starts, we continue with the routine. Yeah, but it's all fun to me. It's fun. That's what it was like in high school. It was fun then too. So now

01:36:17.520 - 01:36:40.759

I just get paid for it. Now, what sort of injuries have you sustained over the years? Uh Luckily I just torn ligaments and, and broken ribs. No arms, no leg. Oh, my knee. I screwed up on the apocalypse. Yeah. Yeah, we went, that was another thing,

01:36:41.609 - 01:37:00.500

thing. Um, we're gonna get blown off this tower that they, this bridge, they blow up about every night on, uh, uh, I forget the river that was there. But anyway, so Terry, he says, Chuck, I think we're gonna do the fall tonight. Well, we had checked

01:37:00.509 - 01:37:13.750

out the river and it was like probably 8 ft of water, 9 ft of water. You don't do it tonight. And the next, and we're at the hotel where they load the bonkers to take people, the tourists up the river. And I see and here's another

01:37:13.759 - 01:37:31.779

step showing, I go shoot the water's going down every day. I think about three nights later. But, uh, Terry comes over and said, we're gonna do it tonight. So anyway, we, but the water, I think we had 7 ft of water from like 65 ft and

01:37:31.790 - 01:37:46.979

I bottomed out, tweaked my knee. But, uh, and then she was there. We'd be walking along on the set or somewhere at the hotel. I didn't producers or anybody to know I screwed up my knee because Terry said, well, we're not gonna do anything for a

01:37:46.990 - 01:37:59.379

few days. It'll get better. So he's telling me how my knee is gonna be. So I, I say, oh Charlotte, wait a minute. She said, what are we stopping for? II, I don't want the producer to see my knee. I said, well, look, oh, look at

01:37:59.390 - 01:38:18.970

that Caribou over there across the river. So I'd be faking it. So nobody would see me. What film did you say? That was? Apocalypse. Apocalypse now. But anyway, we got blown off that bridge and, and that was funny too because there's gonna be so many mortars

01:38:18.979 - 01:38:37.799

go. They told the F guy said you're gonna go on the fourth mortar it's gonna blow. So we're up top of this thing and they start going, they're, they're shooting on it. 12 and Terry goes, well, I only was it. And boom, I said it was

01:38:37.810 - 01:39:06.979

for Terry. Hi. But that's how, you're kidding. You joke. And you gotta make fun out of it, you know? But, and go through a few more. Ok. Yeah, you guys are my leaders. Oh, this was bad boys with Sean Penn. Yeah. Well, uh, prior to this,

01:39:07.310 - 01:39:20.149

um, he's being chased by the cops and he's got a hood on and so he wants to get rid of, he wants to get rid of all the evidence. So he throws the hood out and then he throws the gun out. So now I got the

01:39:20.160 - 01:39:38.450

window open. Now that's, that's set like that, that's established window. Now, I got a crash into this van and they put five gallons of gas here and about, I don't know, five over there and I, when I hit this thing, big explosion, fire I mean, real

01:39:38.459 - 01:39:56.879

fire. Not like today where it's not all, you know, like digital or all the computer stuff. Yeah. CG. I, but anyway, so this is the explosion going in the, and you don't even see my car after a little bit and you can hear on the, in

01:39:56.890 - 01:40:10.209

the real movie the ad goes, somebody was gonna, he goes, you hear him say, don't go in there, he's hollering is still shooting And then I got a buddy of mine who's over off to the side and I'm laying in the seat. I just want, you

01:40:10.220 - 01:40:27.339

know, I didn't have fire gear, nothing. I just drive it in. So, but, but when I hit it, I lay over, you know, and so anything it's gonna go past me. So, uh, I hear Dean yelling, Chuck, you. Ok. I said, did he cut yet? He

01:40:27.350 - 01:40:46.810

says, yeah, I said, ok, and then I can I crawl, I open the door and I crawl out and get away. But anyway, that was this one that was that, but that was mainly what I did was the car stuff for Sean Sean down. It's hard

01:40:46.819 - 01:41:09.540

to imagine looking at those photographs that anybody in the driver's seat would be, you know, it wouldn't be singed. Yeah. Well, timing, timing I laid over in the seat. Yeah. Yeah. So we have the, the MSA. Oh, yeah. You know, I just mainly threw that in

01:41:09.549 - 01:41:31.979

for, uh, another character that, and playing myself, you know, and we did a big fight in a, in a child hall. So when I saw that, I assumed you doubled for Anthony Hopkins. But I guess that wasn't the case. No, no, that was quick. That's an

01:41:31.990 - 01:41:50.810

example from your more recent career. Yeah. Have, have the jobs changed for you in the last couple of decades? Um Not really, I mean, two years ago, I was, I coordinate a show and uh because I, again, this, the, the, the lady that it was her

01:41:50.819 - 01:42:12.919

first directorial debut and she was the script girl for Mickey Moore and her daughter is Kristen Stewart. So she uh had got this show together and, and I uh ended up driving a big old limo. It must a gigantic thing. And after a near miss with

01:42:12.930 - 01:42:26.930

AAA car first and then a pickup truck. Now, here's another timing thing he's in coming around. It's a blind corner. I gotta do just timing. So, and then what I do I do, he's coming this way and I have to do a near miss and go

01:42:26.939 - 01:42:39.350

up on all one shot up onto the lawn and stop before I hit the house. And I got a camera guy sitting on the, on a box, right? I said, boy, you better be ready to move because I'm gonna hit the grass and I don't know

01:42:39.359 - 01:42:54.109

just how far this thing is gonna go because it could be like a freight train. I come up and I hit the, I just tapped his, he jumped up but I tapped that box with the bumper. But anyway, that was two years ago. I was doing

01:42:54.120 - 01:43:16.569

that. Yeah, I don't know. What, before that I forget. What about Pirates of the Caribbean? All right. What was your role in that? Oh, that was that the curse of the Black Pearl? Yeah. Pirates of the Caribbean. That's what I think. I don't know. Oh yeah.

01:43:16.589 - 01:43:47.390

But the other one was Pirates. The one with the sword fight that the sword? This was that, that's pirates, right? That wrong? Ok. That's Pirates. Correction. I did it. Mhm. No, I'm OK. What you were asking about Mas Azora? Oh, you thought that was Pirates of

01:43:47.399 - 01:44:08.319

the Caribbean? OK. But Mas Azora was down in Mexico with uh Antonio Banderas and I was just a swordsman again, training with swords. You get the people know you can, you know, work with the sword. In fact, again with buddy, buddy was my, my guy to,

01:44:08.330 - 01:44:24.430

you know, for short fighting. He, I worked in the back of his house with him because he was a good sword fighter. I mean he did Zorro in the fifties TV. Show. Yeah, TV. Show. And so he, he knew sword fighting. Oh, and we were all

01:44:24.439 - 01:44:38.299

rehearsing one day just because this other show was coming up and he gets a call from Hawaii. And uh it was Paul State or a guy who I came up with and got me my first jobs. And he says, buddy, who you got over there, they

01:44:38.310 - 01:44:52.649

can sword fight. I gotta do a fencing thing over here in Hawaii on Magnum. And, but it's just a minute. I go in, he says, we got a call for you. He says it was Paul and he says, Chuck, he said, well, won't come on over

01:44:52.660 - 01:45:13.919

and do this fencing thing. So, referrals, you know, people you worked with before. So, what kind of changes did you see from when you started to now? Oh, that's, that's, that's what you were hitting on is to the, the way it was then. And like now

01:45:15.189 - 01:45:34.549

there's the stunts, uh, of course, are a lot of it. It's safer now because you got where we did the falls and that now they'll put the actors on cables and, and with a green screen and, you know, it's all done, uh, completely safe. And, uh,

01:45:36.160 - 01:45:52.830

uh, it, it's just a big, the difference is all of the stuff that's done on the computer is explosions like that fire I showed you on that would have been all in, from video effects and then it had done that, uh, high falls. They're, they put

01:45:52.839 - 01:46:07.140

them on a cable and they, they, you, you shoot the other stuff separately. That's, there's a big difference there. And I, in a way I kinda, I resent it. There's, we have access to go to a screening room and we could go every weekend and see

01:46:07.149 - 01:46:19.379

all the new movies. I went to two of them and I said, I don't want to do, I don't want to see these anymore. I don't like any of the movies that are out now because to me it's not the way it really is. I know

01:46:19.779 - 01:46:37.419

yourselves. You came up with the, with the video games and all the explosions and that's good. That's, that's what you came up with. But for me, I still like the realism. I mean, it took more to do that than it did with the, the video and

01:46:37.430 - 01:46:54.529

the, the computers, you know, so I respect what we did then over what they do now. I mean, you see these car pictures now there's cars going 25 times through the air, you know, and these girls are jumping around the sword and flying through the, that's

01:46:54.779 - 01:47:11.549

hokey, you know, that's not for real. We had to do it for real. That's the only thing I can say and I realized the audience is different now and that's what they go for. Hm. He's a video game player. I can tell when I was little.

01:47:15.129 - 01:47:34.410

But yeah, that's, that's about about it. But working with actors, some of them are really great to work with and then you got guys with egos that you gotta, you gotta do reverse psychology. I, I had my own class in that deal, directors, same thing you

01:47:34.419 - 01:47:48.180

got, when you go to explain, you tell them how to do something. Uh You mention how to do it and they'll, in between times you don't get to it for they, they changed it and then you get, but no, wait, remember you mentioned this is how

01:47:48.189 - 01:48:04.359

we were gonna do it. Oh Right. Right. Yeah, you gotta completely turn it around. Oh You just thought of it. We gotta do it your way. And that becomes the way you can really get it done. You know? Are there any actors that, like, insisted on

01:48:04.370 - 01:48:28.979

doing their stunts or? Yeah. And some of my let, like, Sean is good, Sean Penn could be a stunt guy. Um, one time I was in kind of a fix too. Was that thing down with the, well, he's not uh Phoenix River but, well, not really.

01:48:29.330 - 01:48:44.330

I worked in Joaquin who was Lee and we worked and he was like 11 years old and, uh to, like, he's got to rappel out of his third story house. He, he's gonna sneak off and take his bike. So I gotta work with all these kids

01:48:44.339 - 01:49:01.799

and every kid I had him do what the other kid was gonna do. So they could all have fun, you know, do rappelling. And I had another kid scuba diving and, and, uh, you know, oh, you do? Uh, well, anyway, all three of them had to

01:49:01.810 - 01:49:17.660

work together but I'd take them all out and we'd, we'd train them all together. And um, Joaquin had to do a thing where he's in this like a rocket thing that, that and he has to crash into the water. So I took a double kid from

01:49:17.669 - 01:49:28.200

down in Florida, Key West and I said, look, this is, you're gonna have to be in this chair and, and you go down and I got a guy diving and he's gonna unbuckle. It won't even be buckle. He's just gonna come down like this and you're

01:49:28.209 - 01:49:49.430

out of the chair, he chickened out. So Joaquin did it. Luckily Joaquin did it. Yeah, I had another thing up in Canada where this guy, you know, the, the director dreamed up, he wants this guy to come running and jumping over the length of this car.

01:49:49.439 - 01:50:00.589

I said, I don't know if that guy can do that. So I take him down around the corner. I said, hey, run and jump over. There's a company car, run and jump the whole length of this, you know, up over the truck, just run foot, jump

01:50:00.600 - 01:50:18.310

over. He did it like nothing. I said, it's your deal. You're gonna do this many times, things like that. A lot of things going on, you know, they're, they're, you gotta dream up something real quick right now because they're waiting, they're ready to go. They're just

01:50:18.319 - 01:50:42.870

moving the camera over. Ok, let's do this. Yeah. Do you have any plans for retirement? If I got a call tomorrow. What would I do? You go? No, really? I, no, I'd go any time. I don't know if I'd go off any 85 ft cliffs. But

01:50:43.379 - 01:51:03.200

I might, yeah. No, I, I don't know about and, and another reason is I don't have to do it anymore. You know, I could pick what I wanna do. Certain, certain things I would do. I'd go, I'd do a fight. I mean, that's nothing. Or do

01:51:03.209 - 01:51:23.140

some water stuff or a s small fall somewhere out of a window into the boxes. I use boxes a lot because for sure they're there. You know, the airbags. I know guys have, they go, they can go through them if they go too high. One guy

01:51:23.149 - 01:51:46.370

did too. That's one I didn't hit on, tried to do a 200 ft into the airbag. His dad is there filming it and he went right through the airbag. So, but what else? Well, then we covered 49 years. We did, um, were there any favorite stunts

01:51:46.379 - 01:51:57.759

that you didn't get a chance to talk about or the most dangerous stunts? I think we hit pretty much. The danger was the train. I think that was probably the closest to, to where all the other ones. I figure I can get away with it and

01:51:57.770 - 01:52:11.839

somehow I might get screwed up a little bit, but I can make it, you know, it's a long way from my heart, you know. But the train thing was probably the toughest, toughest one. That's why I brought that along. But the other stuff, you know, like

01:52:11.850 - 01:52:25.910

85 ft, ok, fine. There's one guy says you couldn't drag me off of this hill with that pickup truck. I just say, well, you know, I look at it different. I figure there's a lot of water there. I can't miss it. You know, I get the

01:52:25.919 - 01:52:42.930

whole ocean. Right. And I just don't go ahead. I was gonna say, I think we've actually got you through pretty much John. Did either of you have any more questions you wanted to ask? No, not unless you had anything that you wanted to talk about. Did

01:52:42.939 - 01:52:58.370

I miss anything on IM DB? Bunch of stuff there? I don't, I think we did do it. Thank you so much. Well, I appreciate you asking, you know.